Scale recommendation

Greetings tuning members,

I am new to the world of alternative scales, so please forgive what may seem
uninformed questions. I have been playing with converting certain number
sequences into musical tones as an alternative to graphing them and for my
current project I am hoping to find a scale in which pairs of notes that ar 5
or 10 steps apart are each highly consonant. I see that if a two-octave
frame is divided into 17 equal steps, 5 steps is close to a 3/2 ratio and 10
steps is close to a 9/4 ratio which looks promising. What I want to know is,
does this scale have a name? Is it musically useful? and if so, have any
compositions been written in it. I've recently begun listening to
compositions (by Charles Carpenter) in the BP scale and I really like them.
Thanks to anyone who responds,
Eric deLaubenfels

[Eric wrote:]
>I am new to the world of alternative scales, so please forgive what may
>seem uninformed questions.

Welcome to the tuning list, Eric! I'm not really the guy who should be
responding, but the one(s) I expected to must be on vacation or engaged
with other matters at the moment. Let me see if I can at least clarify
what you're asking.

>I have been playing with converting certain number sequences into
>musical tones as an alternative to graphing them

Can you tell us anything more about these sequences of numbers? Would
they map only to pitch? If so, how would rhythmic questions be decided?

>and for my current project I am hoping to find a scale in which pairs
>of notes that are 5 or 10 steps apart are each highly consonant.

Either, or both? Typically, except for octaves, double a consonant
interval is far less consonant than the original.

>I see that if a two-octave frame is divided into 17 equal steps, 5
>steps is close to a 3/2 ratio and 10 steps is close to a 9/4 ratio
>which looks promising. What I want to know is, does this scale have a
>name?

Not that I know of. Let's call it the Edelster scale, shall we? But,
does 17 divisions of two octaves mean that a single octave is a
forbidden interval?

>Is it musically useful?

In two plus years on this list I've come to believe that _any_ scale
can be musically useful in the right hands. Do you have a synth or
other means to create music from it?

>and if so, have any compositions been written in it.

My guess is not: virgin territory!

>I've recently begun listening to compositions (by Charles Carpenter) in
>the BP scale and I really like them.

Sorry to say I'm not familiar with these compositions. Are they
available, and if so, from where?

Hope you'll get other responses from people more familiar with scales
of this sort. But in any case, please press forward with your ideas!

JdL

--- In tuning@y..., "John A. deLaubenfels" <jdl@a...> wrote:

> >I have been playing with converting certain number sequences into
> >musical tones as an alternative to graphing them
>
> Can you tell us anything more about these sequences of numbers?
Would
> they map only to pitch? If so, how would rhythmic questions be
decided?

Well, that's another can of worms. The number sequences are
quasiperiodic with a period of 5. That is if the nth number is x, the
(n + 5)th number can be x, x + 5, x - 5, x + 10, etc. So you could
have a simple sequence of equally (time)spaced tones or you could
apply creativity to make a more interesting rhythm.

> >and for my current project I am hoping to find a scale in which
pairs
> >of notes that are 5 or 10 steps apart are each highly consonant.
>
> Either, or both?

Both.

Typically, except for octaves, double a consonant
> interval is far less consonant than the original.

Yes, so 5tET would certainly work (but I want more notes!), while the
~16/9 interval in 12tET doesn't seem good enough. I am hoping that a
doubling of 3/2 to 9/4 will still be OK.

> >I see that if a two-octave frame is divided into 17 equal steps, 5
> >steps is close to a 3/2 ratio and 10 steps is close to a 9/4 ratio
> >which looks promising. What I want to know is, does this scale
have a
> >name?
>
> Not that I know of. Let's call it the Edelster scale, shall we?
But,
> does 17 divisions of two octaves mean that a single octave is a
> forbidden interval?

Yes, the scale jumps from 1129c to 1271c

> >Is it musically useful?
>
> In two plus years on this list I've come to believe that _any_ scale
> can be musically useful in the right hands. Do you have a synth or
> other means to create music from it?

Alas, no but perhaps someday.

> >I've recently begun listening to compositions (by Charles
Carpenter) in
> >the BP scale and I really like them.
>
> Sorry to say I'm not familiar with these compositions. Are they
> available, and if so, from where?

I bought 2 CDs, "Frog a la Peche" and "Splat" from the artist:
Charles Carpenter
P.O. Box 205
Andover NH 03216
He said they will be available at amazon.com once he decides what
category they should be in (a question he's been pondering for a few
years now)

> Hope you'll get other responses from people more familiar with
scales
> of this sort. But in any case, please press forward with your
ideas!
>
> JdL

Thanks, say..., your last name sounds _very_ familiar, but I don't
remember a John in the family. Do I know you by another name?

--- In tuning@y..., jacky_ligon@y... wrote:
> and if so, have any
> > compositions been written in it.
>
> Let you be the first! Looking forward to it! Come over to the Make
> Micro Music Group too - lots of neat interaction happening there
with
> scales. Today's highlight there is the Keenan/Erlich "Blackjack"
> scale.

OK, but it may take a while, I'm a total novice.

> BTW - Do you happen to be any relation to John deLaubenfels?

Most likely. As far as I know, my great-great-grandfather was the
only deLaubenfels to come to the USA.

Thanks for the encouragement!
Eric deLaubenfels

--- In tuning@y..., "John A. deLaubenfels" <jdl@a...> wrote:

> >I've recently begun listening to compositions (by Charles
Carpenter) in
> >the BP scale and I really like them.
>
> Sorry to say I'm not familiar with these compositions. Are they
> available, and if so, from where?

I'm astonished that you, the purveyor of the world's best microtonal
website, haven't heard this wonderful music! It was available on the
web for a long time, but appears to be unavailable at the moment.

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "John A. deLaubenfels" <jdl@a...> wrote:
>
> > >I've recently begun listening to compositions (by Charles
> Carpenter) in
> > >the BP scale and I really like them.
> >
> > Sorry to say I'm not familiar with these compositions. Are they
> > available, and if so, from where?
>
> I'm astonished that you, the purveyor of the world's best microtonal
> website, haven't heard this wonderful music! It was available on the
> web for a long time, but appears to be unavailable at the moment.

If anyone locates a Charles Carpenter page or his mp3s please post. I
had links from my page, but they are all broken now.

John Starrett

--- In tuning@y..., "John Starrett" <jstarret@c...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> > --- In tuning@y..., "John A. deLaubenfels" <jdl@a...> wrote:
> >
> > > >I've recently begun listening to compositions (by Charles
> > Carpenter) in
> > > >the BP scale and I really like them.
> > >
> > > Sorry to say I'm not familiar with these compositions. Are
they
> > > available, and if so, from where?
> >
> > I'm astonished that you, the purveyor of the world's best
microtonal
> > website, haven't heard this wonderful music! It was available on
the
> > web for a long time, but appears to be unavailable at the moment.
>
> If anyone locates a Charles Carpenter page or his mp3s please post.
I
> had links from my page, but they are all broken now.
>
> John Starrett

John Starrett, I actually thought that you, not John deLaubenfels,
wrote the message above. Sorry Johns!

<snip>
> John Starrett, I actually thought that you, not John deLaubenfels,
> wrote the message above. Sorry Johns!

No problem.

John Starrett

[Jacky wrote:]
>>BTW - Do you happen to be any relation to John deLaubenfels?

[Eric wrote:]
>Most likely. As far as I know, my great-great-grandfather was the
>only deLaubenfels to come to the USA.

How do you know I live in the USA? ;-> But I do, in fact. I'm writing
Eric off-list, and he's just told me he'll be offline for about a week.
I'm sure that we'll resolve any potential confusion about our possible
relationship soon.

[Paul E wrote:]
>I'm astonished that you, the purveyor of the world's best microtonal
>website, haven't heard this wonderful music [Charles Carpenter]! It was
>available on the web for a long time, but appears to be unavailable at
>the moment.

Why thank you, Paul! I'm surprised you'd describe my teeny website
that way!

[Paul again:]
>John Starrett, I actually thought that you, not John deLaubenfels,
>wrote the message above. Sorry Johns!

Oh, that makes more sense! ;->

JdL

--- In tuning@y..., "John A. deLaubenfels" <jdl@a...> wrote:
> [Jacky wrote:]
> >>BTW - Do you happen to be any relation to John deLaubenfels?
>
> [Eric wrote:]
> >Most likely. As far as I know, my great-great-grandfather was the
> >only deLaubenfels to come to the USA.
>
> How do you know I live in the USA? ;-> But I do, in fact. I'm
writing
> Eric off-list, and he's just told me he'll be offline for about a
week.
> I'm sure that we'll resolve any potential confusion about our
possible
> relationship soon.
>
OK John, I'm back online. Now my understanding of my family history
is as follows...
My great-great-granfather John Anthony deLaubenfels came to the US in
the 1840s (so I know you are not him). He had 8 children of whom 3
died as infants and one was massacred along with 8 others by Apaches
at age 19. My great-grandfather Harry had two children, one of whom
was my grandfather, Max, a somewhat famous marine biologist
specializing in sponges. My grandfather had 4 sons, one of which
(Harry, I think, or Larry) disappeared in New Guinea in 1943. And
finally, my father is David deLaubenfels, a retired professor of
Geography. Although my great-great-grandfather left siblings and
cousins behind in Europe, I have never heard of any deLaubenfels now
living in Europe. So, John, do you recognize any of these names?

Getting back to a topic more relevant to the group, can you or anyone
else recommend an application or instrument that someone with little
or no musical training could use to translate number sequences into
musical tone sequences?

Thanks for any replies,
Eric delaubenfels