Re: [tuning] Re: Sabat-Garibaldi's Dinarra (was: A new era in JI guitar desig...

Hi Dave

Actually, the NY debut of Eduardo Sabat-Garibaldi's Dinarra from Montevideo,
Urugay took place during Microthon 2000. He stayed here a week. The major
seconds of a whole tone scale are divided into 9 parts. However, the actual
music played are Jazz standards that have been altered by the tuning.
Putting your fingers on the fingerboard gives the feel of "all frets" since
they have a fairly thick width.

Uruguayan Alejandro Sanchez is the master of the instrument. He has written
original music for it. During the performance, 12-tET guitarists Harris
Becker and Jesse Eagle comped with the soloist. There was a second Dinarra,
but the action was tough if not dangerous for their hands (in their
estimation). But since all the music was based on 12-tET, there was no
problem...and Alejandro played virtuosically.

How the tuning is used is an important consideration here.

Best, Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:
> Hi Dave
>
> Actually, the NY debut of Eduardo Sabat-Garibaldi's Dinarra from
Montevideo,
> Urugay took place during Microthon 2000. He stayed here a week.
The major
> seconds of a whole tone scale are divided into 9 parts.

Johnny, this is not correct, as it would imply 54 tones per octave.
In fact, there are 53, coming from a single chain of 1/9-schisma
tempered fifths.

In a message dated 8/13/01 8:38:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
paul@stretch-music.com writes:

> Johnny, this is not correct, as it would imply 54 tones per octave.
> In fact, there are 53, coming from a single chain of 1/9-schisma
> tempered fifths.
>
>
>

That's what I remembered, Paul. The untranslated book is in Spanish, but we
spoke much. The reason 12-tET guitar worked was because it fit "exactly"
with the Dinarra.

Johnny

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

> The reason 12-tET guitar worked was because it fit "exactly"
> with the Dinarra.

That's certainly not the case according to anything on the website or
anything Eduardo posted to this list. It seems there is some
misunderstanding somewhere!

In a message dated 8/21/01 8:28:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ESABAT@ADINET.COM.UY writes:

> To Johnny,
> Quote "So, it is like the French system, with 9 commas to the
> equal-tempered whole tone."
> Unquote: I nodded yes.
>
> But please excuse me if I wrongly nodded yes. I believe I didn't
> understand. You know my difficulties with the English language.
>
> What's the meaning of "French System"?
>
> Greetings
> Eduardo
>
>
>

Hello again, Eduardo, and Listers,

We had a misunderstanding about your tuning. To us, the use of the
conventional guitar which was fully mapped on the Dinarra, indicated that it
shared the same pitches. I spoke with Harris Becker the other night to see
if he had to fudge anything or change anything "tuning-wise" to play the
Dinarra's notes, and he didn't think he did.

The French system, taught by Rene Longy at The Juilliard for decades, has 6
equal tempered major whole tones which are split into 9 commas. We naturally
(or unnaturally) thought this is what you were doing. The actual difference
between what you did and the French system was glossed over in the music.

Sorry if I misinterpreted you. Best, Johnny Reinhard

--- In tuning@y..., Afmmjr@a... wrote:

> The French system, taught by Rene Longy at The Juilliard for
decades, has 6
> equal tempered major whole tones which are split into 9 commas.

This seems like a very strange system. Can you tell us any more about
it, and what it is used for?

Incidentally, in the 18th century it was common to teach that whole
tones were 9 commas. But this was in the context of meantone
temperament, and hence implies a division of the octave into 55 parts.

So dividing a tone into 9 parts can mean many different things!