Re: [tuning] Re: French Temp. Ordi. CRITICS

Dear members,

Assessing French temp�rament Ordinaire.

The Pythagorean comma quantifies the "incompatibility" between
fifth and octave: the perfect fifth is "too large" if compared
to the octave.
Therefore, any temperament that includes enlarged fifths
cannot be literally and in the true sense a "well-temperament",
but must remain intrinsically inappropriate for performing
in a fixed tuning for all 24 keys: that is to say, a
"non-well-tempered" system.
Some French "Well"-temperaments have therefore been transposed;
attempt to mend the problem, say from starting at C to starting
at Bb in order to cater for the flattened side of keys.
In my personal opinion, these French temperaments, unfortunately,
just do reflect somehow technological/mathematical incompetence.
Tant pis pour les compositeurs, they had to take what "theoriciens"
could make available for them. Apparently, some of them might never
have practiced tuning a harpsichord and just wrote down what came
to them by hearsay.

I've listened already Couperin-music performed in "authentic"
Fr.Temp. Ord., (it is anyway ill-defined!!) but I was left
puzzled, because that music sounded to me insupportably
out of tune.
Other centuries - other ears hearing and listening!?

I'm now expecting my friends will pick a bone with me
for my critical remark. Should one criticize "historical facts",
no matter how mistuned they are?

Kind regards,

Herbert Anton Kellner

Paul Erlich schrieb:
> --- In tuning@y..., arl_123@h... wrote:
> > Hello, everyone. Can someone describe the subject temperament in
> terms
> > of the circle of fifths for a 12-tone system? IOW, starting with
> the
> > note C how is the Pythagorean (ditonic) comma destributed in terms
> of
> > each of the 12 fifths in order to achieve closure? Thanks for your
> > comment. Sincerely,
>
> The French Temperament Ordinaire differs from other well-temperaments
> in that it has a few perfect fifths _wider_ than pure -- typically
> the fifth Bb-F and adjacent fifths. Thus the remaining fifths have to
> be narrowed by a total of more than one pythagorean comma. Generally
> this means that all keys from F major through A major will be very
> pure and meantone-like.

That's fine! But how are the keys of C#, F#- and Ab - major??
Manuel may have some specific examples.

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