Re: trias harmonica -- most recent responses

Hello, there, Monz, and please let me respond to your very helpful
remarks as well as Herbert Anton Kellner's.

First, I suspect that my use of "the Monz" may reflect a certain
playful intensification: "As our one and only Monz has said..."
Is it possible that I might be influenced by reading some years ago
about a character in some television drama known as "the Fonz"?

Mainly, in response to your comments, Herbert Anton (realizing that
you may not be reading this immediately, and wishing you the best on
your travels), I would say that an interval may be "appreciated" in
many different ways depending on the era and style. Certainly I would
not wish to imply that what I find beautiful for a 14th-century or
derivative style would be equally appropriate for an 18th-century key
system!

For example, major and minor thirds play vital roles both as stable
concords in a 13th-century English piece such as _Sumer is i-cumen
in_, and as unstable "partial concords" in 13th-century music from
Continental Europe.

Similarly, Bach shows a keen appreciation for minor sevenths as
unstable intervals, while they serve as stable concords in a system
such as Paul Erlich's decatonic scale with tetrads of 4:5:6:7.

From this perspective, I would regard the conventions of an approach
such as 18th-century well-temperament as reflecting a given musical
style. The same interval sizes might be used with a different musical
meaning in another style, or different sizes with analogous meaning.

Similarly, the 18th-century convention that major thirds should be not
more than about a syntonic comma wider than 5:4 nicely fits a style
based on the _trias harmonica_ with its ideal ratios of 4:5:6.

In a 21st-century neo-Gothic style where Pythagorean thirds may be the
intonational norm, or thirds with simpler ratios at or near 9:7 and
7:6, very different conventions of intonation and well-temperament may
apply.

As you observe, Monz, taste may differ even within a given stylistic
setting. For example, I have found meantone minor thirds near 7:6
quite "concordant" and pleasing for music in a "Xeno-Renaissance"
manner, and Owen Jorgensen expresses the view that a narrow minor
third does not become a "Wolf," but rather is acceptable as
representing a ratio somewhere near 7:6.

However, Nicola Vicentino (1555), in contrast, suggests that a minor
third if narrower than its usual meantone size around 6:5 tends toward
the "dissonance" of a major second, and so describes the "minimal
third" or augmented second found on his _archicembalo_ or
"superharpsichord." In contrast, he finds a "proximate minor third" a
diesis _larger_ than usual, which he describes as near 11:9, as rather
"concordant."

Having raised these points, I would emphasize the value of specific
historical conventions such as those of 18th-century well-temperament
as a guide to the styles for which they provide such an eloquent
intonational expression.

Most appreciatively,

Margo Schulter
mschulter@value.net

> From: mschulter <MSCHULTER@VALUE.NET>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 6:49 PM
> Subject: [tuning] Re: trias harmonica -- most recent responses
>
>
> First, I suspect that my use of "the Monz" may reflect a certain
> playful intensification: "As our one and only Monz has said..."
> Is it possible that I might be influenced by reading some years ago
> about a character in some television drama known as "the Fonz"?

Sure... when I was younger and the TV show "Happy Days" was being
aired, the character Arthur Fonzarelli, AKA "Fonzie" AKA "The Fonz",
was extremely popular, and friends joked about my name like that
all the time. No surprise that you would employ it too. It's OK
with me. :)

> As you observe, Monz, taste may differ even within a given stylistic
> setting. For example, I have found meantone minor thirds near 7:6
> quite "concordant" and pleasing for music in a "Xeno-Renaissance"
> manner, and Owen Jorgensen expresses the view that a narrow minor
> third does not become a "Wolf," but rather is acceptable as
> representing a ratio somewhere near 7:6.
>
> However, Nicola Vicentino (1555), in contrast, suggests that a minor
> third if narrower than its usual meantone size around 6:5 tends toward
> the "dissonance" of a major second, and so describes the "minimal
> third" or augmented second found on his _archicembalo_ or
> "superharpsichord." In contrast, he finds a "proximate minor third" a
> diesis _larger_ than usual, which he describes as near 11:9, as rather
> "concordant."
>
> Having raised these points, I would emphasize the value of specific
> historical conventions such as those of 18th-century well-temperament
> as a guide to the styles for which they provide such an eloquent
> intonational expression.

A good point and good examples, Margo.

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com