what a dope (user)

Haresh,

>
> The seven Moorchchhana-s of Shadja grama, with their shruti
> intervals, going in to lower octave, successively (that is, in
> descending order):
>
> 1. 4 S 3 R 2 G 4 m 4 P 3 D 2 N

So is this analagous to B A G F E D C?

Where can i find/ would you be so kind as to show me, the interval size's of Shruti?

George

kinda dropping in here
for sruti (reveal) there has two be three identities 1.)at rest 2.)a comma
sharp 3.)a comma flat usually equalling 81/80
here is a simple 22 sruti for Csound...
;
Sa.........................RE...............................................
...............................................PA...........................
.......................Ni(k)
f04 0 16 -2 1 1.053 1.0666 1.1111 1.125 1.185 1.2 1.25 1.265 1.3333 1.35
1.406 1.4222 1.5 1.580 1.6 1.666 1.6875 1.7777 1.8 1.875 1.898 ;hindu 22
srtuti #1
kinda gives an idea of the size.......
cheers

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/

>
> Where can i find/ would you be so kind as to show me, the interval size's
of Shruti?
>
> George
>
>
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--- In tuning@y..., George Zelenz <ploo@m...> wrote:

.......................

Hi George, let us present a simplified picture. The rough
equivalences would work out as under:-

1. S R G m P D N Indian solfege
C D E F G A B Western notation

2. N S R G m P D Indian
B C D E F G A Western

3. D N S R G m P In
A B C D E F G We

4. P D N S R G m In
G A B C D E F We

5. m P D N S R G In
F G A B C D E We

6. G m P D N S R In
E F G A B C D We

7. R G m P D N S Indian
D E F G A B C Western

Haresh.

Haresh, Pat,

I don't have Csound.

What would a typical sruti be as a just ratio?

Thanks,

GZ

shreeswifty wrote:

> kinda dropping in here
> for sruti (reveal) there has two be three identities 1.)at rest 2.)a comma
> sharp 3.)a comma flat usually equalling 81/80
> here is a simple 22 sruti for Csound...
> ;
> Sa.........................RE...............................................
> ...............................................PA...........................
> .......................Ni(k)
> f04 0 16 -2 1 1.053 1.0666 1.1111 1.125 1.185 1.2 1.25 1.265 1.3333 1.35
> 1.406 1.4222 1.5 1.580 1.6 1.666 1.6875 1.7777 1.8 1.875 1.898 ;hindu 22
> srtuti #1
> kinda gives an idea of the size.......
> cheers
>
> Pat Pagano, Director
> South East Just Intonation Society
> http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
> http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
>
> >
> > Where can i find/ would you be so kind as to show me, the interval size's
> of Shruti?
> >
> > George
> >
> >
> > You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> > email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
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> >
> >
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Thanks. This part i'm clear on. GZ

Haresh BAKSHI wrote:

> --- In tuning@y..., George Zelenz <ploo@m...> wrote:
>
> .......................
>
> Hi George, let us present a simplified picture. The rough
> equivalences would work out as under:-
>
> 1. S R G m P D N Indian solfege
> C D E F G A B Western notation
>
> 2. N S R G m P D Indian
> B C D E F G A Western
>
> 3. D N S R G m P In
> A B C D E F G We
>
> 4. P D N S R G m In
> G A B C D E F We
>
> 5. m P D N S R G In
> F G A B C D E We
>
> 6. G m P D N S R In
> E F G A B C D We
>
> 7. R G m P D N S Indian
> D E F G A B C Western
>
> Haresh.
>
>
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--- In tuning@y..., George Zelenz <ploo@m...> wrote:

>>>> Haresh, Pat, I don't have Csound. What would a typical sruti be
as a just ratio? Thanks, GZ >>>>

The ratios (courtesy Paul) are:-

S. Ramanathan's and Erv Wilson's ratios are

1/1
256/243
16/15
10/9
9/8
32/27
6/5
5/4
81/64
4/3
27/20
45/32
729/512
3/2
128/81
8/5
5/3
27/16
16/9
9/5
15/8
243/128
(2/1).

I hope that is what you were looking for.
Haresh.

Haresh,

beautiful. Thanks.

GZ

Haresh BAKSHI wrote:

> --- In tuning@y..., George Zelenz <ploo@m...> wrote:
>
> >>>> Haresh, Pat, I don't have Csound. What would a typical sruti be
> as a just ratio? Thanks, GZ >>>>
>
> The ratios (courtesy Paul) are:-
>
> S. Ramanathan's and Erv Wilson's ratios are
>
> 1/1
> 256/243
> 16/15
> 10/9
> 9/8
> 32/27
> 6/5
> 5/4
> 81/64
> 4/3
> 27/20
> 45/32
> 729/512
> 3/2
> 128/81
> 8/5
> 5/3
> 27/16
> 16/9
> 9/5
> 15/8
> 243/128
> (2/1).
>
> I hope that is what you were looking for.
> Haresh.
>
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--- In tuning@y..., George Zelenz <ploo@m...> wrote:
> Haresh, Pat,
>
> I don't have Csound.
>
> What would a typical sruti be as a just ratio?
>
> Thanks,
>
> GZ

In the Moorchchhanas that Haresh gave, the interval of 2 shrutis has
ratio 16:15, the interval of 3 shrutis has ratio 10:9, and the
interval of 4 shrutis has ratio 9:8.

and one is the 81/80, no?

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Erlich <paul@stretch-music.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 7:21 PM
Subject: [tuning] Re: what a dope (user)

> --- In tuning@y..., George Zelenz <ploo@m...> wrote:
> > Haresh, Pat,
> >
> > I don't have Csound.
> >
> > What would a typical sruti be as a just ratio?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > GZ
>
> In the Moorchchhanas that Haresh gave, the interval of 2 shrutis has
> ratio 16:15, the interval of 3 shrutis has ratio 10:9, and the
> interval of 4 shrutis has ratio 9:8.
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
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> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
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>
>
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>
>

--- In tuning@y..., "shreeswifty" <ppagano@b...> wrote:
> and one is the 81/80, no?

Not always. For example, if you use the values

2 shrutis = 16:15
3 shrutis = 10:9

you get

1 shruti = (10:9)/(16:15) = 25:24

Monz' recent posts go into more detail, explaining how it is
generally regarded that there are three sizes of shruti: 81:80,
25:24, and 256:243. He gave the Indian names of these, too . . . the
smallest is pramana shruti . . . perhaps in earlier times the shrutis
were closer to equal (they are in the Shrutar I've been
contemplating), but today they are extremely unequal.

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "shreeswifty" <ppagano@b...> wrote:
> > and one is the 81/80, no?
>
> Not always. For example, if you use the values
>
> 2 shrutis = 16:15
> 3 shrutis = 10:9
>
> you get
>
> 1 shruti = (10:9)/(16:15) = 25:24 >>>>

Hello Paul, Pat, George, this one-shruti phenomenon is quite
interesting. As Paul has shown above, one-shruti difference can
arise from 3 shrutis - 2 shrutis. In general we have:

4 shrutis - 3 shrutis = 1 shruti = 9:8/10:9 = 81:80 = 22 cents
3 shrutis - 2 shrutis = 1 shruti = 10:9/16:15 = 25:24 = 70 cents
2 shrutis - 1 shrutis = 1 shruti = 16:15/81:80 = 256:243 = 90 cents
etc. etc. So, even one-shruti interval can mean so many ratios!

Regards,
Haresh.

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> . . . perhaps in earlier times the shrutis
> were closer to equal (they are in the Shrutar I've been
> contemplating), but today they are extremely unequal.

Yes the latest "11-limit well-tempered" Shrutar tuning being
contemplated, has shruti ranging only from 44c to 71c, as opposed to
22c to 90c. It is Rothenberg-proper where the modern 5-limit JI Indian
shruti scale is not. The proposed Shrutar tuning also has more pitches
that are justly intoned against 1/1 and 3/2 drones.

-- Dave Keenan

--- In tuning@y..., "Dave Keenan" <D.KEENAN@U...> wrote:
> --- In tuning@y..., "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...> wrote:
> > . . . perhaps in earlier times the shrutis
> > were closer to equal (they are in the Shrutar I've been
> > contemplating), but today they are extremely unequal.
>
> Yes the latest "11-limit well-tempered" Shrutar tuning being
> contemplated, has shruti ranging only from 44c to 71c, as opposed
to 22c to 90c. It is Rothenberg-proper where the modern 5-limit JI
Indian shruti scale is not. The proposed Shrutar tuning also has more
pitches that are justly intoned against 1/1 and 3/2 drones.
> -- Dave Keenan >>>>>>>

Hi Dave, Can you enlighten me on (1) why 11-limit?, (2) why reduce
shruti range to 44-71c limit?, (3) 5-limit JI Indian shruti scale is
not Rothenberg-proper -- can you elucidate for someone new like me?
(4) How do we know that shruti-s in earlier times were closer to
equal?

I thank you in advance,
Haresh.

I just spent hours writing a long reply to Haresh in the thread
"Re: what a dope (user)"
complete with a scala definition of the Shrutar scale and lattices.

If anyone received it in email, could they please send me a copy. It
now exists nowhere else!

Immediately after I posted it, I looked at it in the list on the web
and I realised I should have changed the thread title to something
more meaningful. So I deleted it, intending to repost it with a
different title. I forgot that I had composed it in the browser, not
my email program, and so I didn't have a copy.

What a dope!

-- Dave Keenan