Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Impersonating Brian McLaren?

I haven't read but a few of the relevant messages, and those messages I've only
scanned briefly. Still, I've seen over the tuning list recently what appear on the
surface at least to be messages from Brian McLaren. Just to make sure that there's
no misunderstanding here,

BRIAN MCLAREN IS NOT ON THE TUNING LIST!!!

When I mentioned this to Brian (including mentioning that I may be mistaken), he replied:

---------------------------------------------------

Gary;
Somebody is impersonat5ing me. That's a federal crime, incidentally,
and one of the completely forbidden violations which any ISP will
discontinue service for.
Spoofing someone's internet address is a violation of a number of
federal laws, including itnerstate wire fraud.
If you would post a message to everyone pointing out that I am not and
have not been ont he tuning list for 4.5 years, and that the person is
violating interstate wire fraud statutes by spoofing my ID, I'd appreciate
it.
The reason this is serious is that someone who spoofs another person's
internet ID can subscribe to expensive services, destroy the other person's
credit, etc.
-- mclaren

---------------------------------------------------

I'm hoping that after I actually read those messages, I'll find one of two
things to be the case:
1. I just totally misread or misunderstood the whole thing, or
2. That there's a humorous undertone in these messages, not obvious from
scanning a few words of a few messages, but obvious to anybody with
half a brain if they actually read the messages thoroughly, that the
McLaren impresonator(s?) is/are only spoofing Brian's style for
humorous effect.

[Gary said:]

> BRIAN MCLAREN IS NOT ON THE TUNING LIST!!!

[Brian said [fwd]]

> Somebody is impersonating me.
> I am not and have not been on the tuning list for 4.5 years,

Thanks Gary, that's good to know.

I was starting to wonder what was wrong with
Brian and it's good to know that that is not really him.

Should we make a list of all the yahoo IDs that this
person has been using? I have noticed 4 so far...

- Jeff

That's great but insulting Margo for no reason is lame
Brian McClaren or not.

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: X. J. Scott <xjscott@earthlink.net>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Impersonating Brian McLaren?

> [Gary said:]
>
> > BRIAN MCLAREN IS NOT ON THE TUNING LIST!!!
>
> [Brian said [fwd]]
>
> > Somebody is impersonating me.
> > I am not and have not been on the tuning list for 4.5 years,
>
> Thanks Gary, that's good to know.
>
> I was starting to wonder what was wrong with
> Brian and it's good to know that that is not really him.
>
> Should we make a list of all the yahoo IDs that this
> person has been using? I have noticed 4 so far...
>
> - Jeff
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
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>
>
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>
>

Gary!
Who cares! I believe everything supposedly said was said by him at other times if memory
serves me right. Perhaps he is having a little memory problems

Gary Morrison wrote:

> I haven't read but a few of the relevant messages, and those messages I've only
> scanned briefly. Still, I've seen over the tuning list recently what appear on the
> surface at least to be messages from Brian McLaren. Just to make sure that there's
> no misunderstanding here,
>
> BRIAN MCLAREN IS NOT ON THE TUNING LIST!!!
>
> When I mentioned this to Brian (including mentioning that I may be mistaken), he replied:
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Gary;
> Somebody is impersonat5ing me. That's a federal crime, incidentally,
> and one of the completely forbidden violations which any ISP will
> discontinue service for.
> Spoofing someone's internet address is a violation of a number of
> federal laws, including itnerstate wire fraud.
> If you would post a message to everyone pointing out that I am not and
> have not been ont he tuning list for 4.5 years, and that the person is
> violating interstate wire fraud statutes by spoofing my ID, I'd appreciate
> it.
> The reason this is serious is that someone who spoofs another person's
> internet ID can subscribe to expensive services, destroy the other person's
> credit, etc.
> -- mclaren
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> I'm hoping that after I actually read those messages, I'll find one of two
> things to be the case:
> 1. I just totally misread or misunderstood the whole thing, or
> 2. That there's a humorous undertone in these messages, not obvious from
> scanning a few words of a few messages, but obvious to anybody with
> half a brain if they actually read the messages thoroughly, that the
> McLaren impresonator(s?) is/are only spoofing Brian's style for
> humorous effect.
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest mode.
> tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to individual emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

Jeff!
The 1000 line post against me is the sign of something rational and OK.
did you forget how he wiped out one list already. WHAT ABOUT MESSING UP A JOB FOR DAN WOLF
ARE YOU AND GARY OUT OF YOUR MINDS.
THAT'S JUST WHAT WE NEED SOME SPOILED RICH KID TELLING OTHERS WHAT OTHERS SHOULD DO.
FRANKLY I THINK HE CAN STOP WRITING BECAUSE IT ALL SOUNDS THE SAME

"X. J. Scott" wrote:

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

> That's great but insulting Margo for no reason is lame
---
> Brian McClaren or not.

Pat,

No need to say but -- I agree with you completely.
That's what I was trying to say.

> That's great but insulting Margo for no reason is lame
> Brian McClaren or not.

Definitely.

But it wasn't Brian.

Gary,

--- In tuning@y..., Gary Morrison <mr88cet@a...> wrote:
> But it wasn't Brian.

OK, just out of curiousity: are we to understand that Brian McLaren
has not posted to the Alternate Tuning Mailing list only, and that
the postings that (for all intents and purposes) ended the Practical
Microtonality list *were* his? Or is it that Brian hasn't been
involved in *any* of the related tuning lists ever?

It would have been pretty classy for Brian to come online, briefly,
to explain this all, and make ammends where he could for his alter
ego's postings. But unless you left out a bunch of stuff, he just
wrote you and complained how it affected him.

I don't know, but when you include phrases in your posts
like "obvious to anybody with half a brain if they actually read the
messages thoroughly", I have to take all of this with a grain of
salt. My half a brain is still suggesting simpler explanations to the
whole mess...

Regards,
Jon

Let me tell ya folks, if these messages really were from Brian, and he's "playing
dumb" about them, then he's definitely doing a really convincing job at it.

Kraig Grady wrote:
>
> Jeff!
> The 1000 line post against me is the sign of something rational and OK.
> did you forget how he wiped out one list already. WHAT ABOUT MESSING UP A JOB FOR
> DAN WOLF
> ARE YOU AND GARY OUT OF YOUR MINDS.
> THAT'S JUST WHAT WE NEED SOME SPOILED RICH KID TELLING OTHERS WHAT OTHERS SHOULD
> DO.
> FRANKLY I THINK HE CAN STOP WRITING BECAUSE IT ALL SOUNDS THE SAME

> OK, just out of curiousity: are we to understand that Brian McLaren
> has not posted to the Alternate Tuning Mailing list only, and that
> the postings that (for all intents and purposes) ended the Practical
> Microtonality list *were* his? Or is it that Brian hasn't been
> involved in *any* of the related tuning lists ever?

Yes, Brian definitely was on the practicalmicrotonality list for much of its existence, but he has
not been on tuning list since the mills-college list days. I know of no evidence that anything he
said on that list was from an impersonator.

>
>
> It would have been pretty classy for Brian to come online, briefly,
> to explain this all, and make ammends where he could for his alter
> ego's postings.

I'm attempting to locate those particular postings that POed everybody and forward them to him. I
think I've found two of the messages that appear to have come from him.

Like I said, I've only had time to barely skim them, so I honestly don't know (yet) what all has
been said. I can see (now) that it's been pretty brutal though!

Gary,

Fair enough. I hope this all works out...

Jon

On 6/16/01 2:27 AM, "Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Yes, Brian definitely was on the practicalmicrotonality list for much of its
> existence,

Exactly. And there's no excuse for what he pulled on that list either.
Except maybe that he *is* bipolar and *hasn't* been taking his meds.
That would definitely explain it. But it doesn't justify it.

On 6/16/01 1:39 AM, "Gary Morrison" <mr88cet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Let me tell ya folks, if these messages really were from Brian, and he's
> "playing dumb" about them, then he's definitely doing a really convincing job
> at it.

He isn't convincing anyone of anything.

Why would someone who is so obviously pro-McLaren and promoting something
he's selling be so inclined to misappropriate his identity under the same
guise to attack people and cause him a bad reputation? Why would someone
who is misappropriating his identity to attack people and cause him a bad
reputation under the same guise promote something he's selling? Are you
saying that him saying he hasn't been on the tuning list for 4 years mean
that whoever is doing this has only been copying and pasting things that
Brian wrote 4 years ago? (see large post below)

The posts were made in the same format, quoting "in message (#) of Digest
(#)".

In tuning_gossip, the alleged imposter also posted amidst the challenge:

"I'll be on the road for a few days, but when I come back
online, let's hear the music. I want URLS. I want WAVS. I want MP3s
and STANDARD MIDI FILES."

It was immediately followed by:

"You do that much and I'll get the bipolar
medicated by then, too. -mclaren"

which was posted by zenharmonic@yahoo.ca a.k.a. The Clever Mr. Zill.

Amidst all of the abusive horseshit that went down at
practicalmicrotonality, from "xed@exchangenet.net", there was also this
post:

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

In message 5 of Digest 6, Kraig Grady wrote:

> Yes so often work is unappreciated by just the recording that people overlook
> what is there. It took McLaren versions for many to appreciate Darreg's work.
> For me there is still something in the original that stands on it's own and
> this is very true of Partch where the weaknesses just adds to the human
> quality of his music.
>
Some of you may wonder what Kraig is talking about here.
Ivor Darreg is one of the most important microtonal composers
and instrument-builders in post-war America. Starting in 1935,
Ivor built his own electronic instruments and retuned them into
various just intonation and equal tempered tunings. For 59 years,
until his death in 1994, Ivor composed in and wrote about a wide
variety of different equal tempered and just intonation systems,
including 10 equal, 13 equal, 14 equal, 15 equal, 16 equal, 17 equal,
18 equal, 19 equal, 22 equal, 24 equal, 31 equal and 53 equal.
Ivor's "Xenharmonic Bulletins" were bound as part of John Chalmers'
journal "Xenharmonikon," and Ivor produced 12 Xenharmonic Bulletins
including a "Special Bulletin" which qualifies as "Xenharmonic
Bulletin Number Zero."
Ivor did not have access to modern digital retunable synthesizers
until
I loaned him one. In 1991 I dragged over a VFX synthesizer and an 8088 DOS
laptop with a serial MIDI interface to Ivor Darreg's house. The laptop
recorded MIDI files of pieces which Ivor improvised in every equal
temperament from 9 through 31.
Two subsequent sessions recorded MIDI files of Ivor's improvs
in every equal temperament up to 53 equal.
At home, I recorded Ivor's MIDI pieces using the synthesizer
Ivor had used to record his pieces. In the process I edited out
a very small number of slight errors Ivor made while playing --
accidential strikes of 2 keys at once, etc.
From these 3 MIDI recordings 3 audio CDs of Ivor's
music were produced.
Ivor named these 3 CDs "Beyond the Xenharmonic Frontier - Volume
1," Volume 2, and Volume 3.
The music on these 3 CDs is typical of Ivor's microtonal
compositional style and many people have called these CDs "wonderful"
and "impressive." However, while the music on the CDs remains
typical of Ivor, the timbres sound much cleaner and more digital
than the earlier reel-to-reel recordings Ivor made of his music
from 1957 until his death.
The synthesizers Ivor built by hand to explore various
microtonal tunings used analog tubes and analog oscillators.
As a result, Ivor's other recordings (aside from the 3 CDs
"Beyond the Xenharmonic Frontier" Volumes 1, 2 and 3) have
a characteristic crackly slightly noisy analog "sound."
This is why Kraig Grady mentioned "It took McLaren versions for
many to appreciate Darreg's work." The digital timbres used
in the 3 CDs "Beyond the Xenharmonic Frontier" have the sleek
noiseless somewhat metallic quality typical of all digital
synthesizers, and some people appear to judge CDs solely by
the amount of background hiss, rather than the quality of
the music.
However, Kraig Grady is entirely correct when he points out
that "for me there is still something in the original that
stands on its own." In the case of Ivor's reel-to-reel recordings
made using his hand-built amplified acoustic and analog electronic
microtonal instruments, each note of Ivor's electronic instruments
has its own slightly different timbre. Moreover, on instruments
like his amplifying clavichord Ivor uses techniques which are
impossible even on modern digital synthesizers -- for example,
tremolo on a single note.
For those of you interested in Ivor Darreg's original recordings,
I have also released a CD compiled from Ivor's original reel
recordings. These recordings go back to 1957 and are of surprisingly
high audio quality. These recordings show the classic analog
"sound" of Ivor's microtonal music, with music Ivor recorded
in the late 1950s and throughout the 1960s and into the 1970s.
For a taste of the newer digital "sound" of Ivor's microtonal
music on digital synthesizers (dating from about 1988 to 1994),
try Ivor's CDs "Beyond the Xenharmonic Frontier" Volumes 1, 2 and
3.
All these CDs of Ivor Darreg's music are available from
The Microtonal Record Shelf, which is currently running a
"buy 3, get 1 free" promotion right now. Each CD is normally
$15.00 but for members of this group I will give a discount to
$12.00 each. E-mail me for info on how to order these CDs by
Ivor Darreg.
The Microtonal Record Shelf currently has 41 audio CDs of
microtonal music in its catalog, along with 2 books and 3
instructional audio CDs: the single CD "Introduction to
Microtonality," and the 2-CD set "Consonance and Dissonance
in Microtonality."
E-mail me if you're interested in getting a catalog and a
60-minute sampler CD containing audio excepts from all 41 of
our microtonal CDs.
-- mclaren

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

> I don't know, but when you include phrases in your posts
> like "obvious to anybody with half a brain if they actually read the
> messages thoroughly", I have to take all of this with a grain of
> salt. My half a brain is still suggesting simpler explanations to the
> whole mess...

Jonathan asked me to take this off to that other list intended for politics, and I will after
this.

But first, I do wish to offer my sincerest apologies if anybody took my "half a brain comment" to
suggest that I was criticizing them. I assure you that I didn't intend that as criticism of
anybody, and if it were, it would be criticism of myself for not having read those messages yet.

All I was trying to say was that I was hoping, after I actually read these messages allegedly from
Brian, that I'd find that somebody was just satarizing Brian as an obvious joke rather than really
trying to do something malicious. At the time I forwarded Brian's message, I hadn't read enough
of all this to figure out that these messages were upsetting people.

Once again, I'm terribly sorry if I gave anybody the wrong impression.

Sounds like the same McLaren that used to be on this list to me.

did'nt he talk shit about you while you were getting your surgery?
apparently he gave Denny like two hundred bucks and demanded a finished lambdoma controller

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: David Beardsley
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Impersonating Brian McLaren?

Sounds like the same McLaren that used to be on this list to me.

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He was "defending" 1/1 & the JI Network.

db
----- Original Message -----
From: shreeswifty

did'nt he talk shit about you while you were getting your surgery?
apparently he gave Denny like two hundred bucks and demanded a finished lambdoma controller

Hi there,

I got an e-mail from Brian making it clear that
he didn't post the messages and that he is taking
the impersonation pretty seriously - as anyone would.

I've posted about it to metatuning.

Have you noticed that zenharmonic is no longer
subscribed to TL. Brian's yahoo id was
xenharmonic rather than zenharmonic.

Robert

Yea.

Sure.
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Walker

Hi there,

I got an e-mail from Brian making it clear that
he didn't post the messages and that he is taking
the impersonation pretty seriously - as anyone would.

I've posted about it to metatuning.

Have you noticed that zenharmonic is no longer
subscribed to TL. Brian's yahoo id was
xenharmonic rather than zenharmonic.

Robert

David,

Please have a look at my post on
/metatuning.

Also best for those interested to continue there, where there
is an on-going discussion to join in, including a post by
Margo Schulter.

Robert

Why not discuss it here?

db
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Walker

Also best for those interested to continue there, where there
is an on-going discussion to join in, including a post by
Margo Schulter.

I was appalled when I first read the "Clever Mister Zill's"
response to Margot Schulter's post on the tuning list
because it didn't match the person called Brian McLaren whom
I met in LA and San Diego during MicroFest in April. Only
those who have had an opportunity to communicate with him
person-to-person are in any position to appreciate his real
qualities. The real Brian McLaren struck me as a very
generous person with some strong opinions and mannerisms
that would be quite easy to impersonate in text. He doesn't
possess the literary eloquence of Margot Schulter but I find
it difficult to believe that he would be capable of the
mean-spiritedness that was shown towards her in the response
by Mister Zill. I can only conclude that Brian has become
the target of a rather vicious smear campaign.

Greg S

Oh for heavens sake
this has become rubbish

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Schiemer <gregs@conmusic.usyd.edu.au>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: [tuning] Re: Impersonating Brian McLaren?

> I was appalled when I first read the "Clever Mister Zill's"
> response to Margot Schulter's post on the tuning list
> because it didn't match the person called Brian McLaren whom
> I met in LA and San Diego during MicroFest in April. Only
> those who have had an opportunity to communicate with him
> person-to-person are in any position to appreciate his real
> qualities. The real Brian McLaren struck me as a very
> generous person with some strong opinions and mannerisms
> that would be quite easy to impersonate in text. He doesn't
> possess the literary eloquence of Margot Schulter but I find
> it difficult to believe that he would be capable of the
> mean-spiritedness that was shown towards her in the response
> by Mister Zill. I can only conclude that Brian has become
> the target of a rather vicious smear campaign.
>
> Greg S
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
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for the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
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emails.
> tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Greg!
I am sorry that you have missed his other posts on other lists or for that matter one on one.
Maybe you missed the one that forced one list out of existence. A 100 line attack upon myself.
Which Brian does not deny!

Greg Schiemer wrote:

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
http://www.anaphoria.com

The Wandering Medicine Show
Wed. 8-9 KXLU 88.9 fm

Impersonating Brian McLaren?

🔗Gary Morrison <mr88cet@austin.rr.com>

🔗X. J. Scott <xjscott@earthlink.net>

🔗shreeswifty <ppagano@bellsouth.net>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>

🔗X. J. Scott <xjscott@earthlink.net>

🔗Gary Morrison <mr88cet@austin.rr.com>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Gary Morrison <mr88cet@austin.rr.com>

🔗Gary Morrison <mr88cet@austin.rr.com>

🔗Jon Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Orphon Soul, Inc. <tuning@orphonsoul.com>

🔗Gary Morrison <mr88cet@austin.rr.com>

🔗David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>

🔗shreeswifty <ppagano@bellsouth.net>

🔗David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>

🔗Robert Walker <robertwalker@ntlworld.com>

🔗David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>

🔗Robert Walker <robertwalker@ntlworld.com>

🔗David Beardsley <davidbeardsley@biink.com>

🔗Greg Schiemer <gregs@conmusic.usyd.edu.au>

🔗shreeswifty <ppagano@bellsouth.net>

🔗Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@anaphoria.com>