Measuring intonational accuracy

Johnny,

In a recent post you said:

> Measuring after the point of playing is pointless.

...and then in a more recent post, regarding performance, you said:

> There is a sort of a real time amnesia that plays out.
> It's very important the a high quality recording (and I stress
> high quality for real honesty on your feedback) to listen to
> soon afterwards. In this sense it is not possible to accurately
> measure one's accomplishments in performance. To analyze while
> playing is an impediment to the imagination.

Well, this really does beg the question: if you can't measure your
accuracy of intonation *while* you are playing, and you can't measure
the accuracy of your playing *after* you've played, just when would a
performer be able to work on improving accuracy in tuning? This isn't
what you meant by taking it on faith, is it? (I don't think so) And
why would you even be worried about recording (except for listening
pleasure) if you've already posited that you can't measure post-
performance?

Once again, I don't have any reason to doubt *your* accuracy, but I
know you've done a lot of teaching, and it would probably be of value
to some people on the list if you could make this topic a little
clearer with regard to facilitating intonational acumen in others.

Faithlessly, that is.

Cheers,
Jon

Well did'nt Partch say something to the effect that musicians would rather
make horrid intonational errors as opposed to marking their instruments??
Not that Johnny could DO this on a bassoon but...
Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 6:14 PM
Subject: [tuning] Measuring intonational accuracy

> Johnny,
>
> In a recent post you said:
>
> > Measuring after the point of playing is pointless.
>
> ...and then in a more recent post, regarding performance, you said:
>
> > There is a sort of a real time amnesia that plays out.
> > It's very important the a high quality recording (and I stress
> > high quality for real honesty on your feedback) to listen to
> > soon afterwards. In this sense it is not possible to accurately
> > measure one's accomplishments in performance. To analyze while
> > playing is an impediment to the imagination.
>
> Well, this really does beg the question: if you can't measure your
> accuracy of intonation *while* you are playing, and you can't measure
> the accuracy of your playing *after* you've played, just when would a
> performer be able to work on improving accuracy in tuning? This isn't
> what you meant by taking it on faith, is it? (I don't think so) And
> why would you even be worried about recording (except for listening
> pleasure) if you've already posited that you can't measure post-
> performance?
>
> Once again, I don't have any reason to doubt *your* accuracy, but I
> know you've done a lot of teaching, and it would probably be of value
> to some people on the list if you could make this topic a little
> clearer with regard to facilitating intonational acumen in others.
>
> Faithlessly, that is.
>
> Cheers,
> Jon
>
>
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Pat,

--- In tuning@y..., "shreeswifty" <ppagano@b...> wrote:
> Well did'nt Partch say something to the effect that musicians would
> rather make horrid intonational errors as opposed to marking their
> instruments??

Genesis of a Music, pp. 201:

"Fingerboards may be marked in many ways. Far the most effective
method I have discovered is the use of a color analogy employing
small blocks of colored lacquer under each string for each of the
desired ratios. When such fingerboards have been used, intonation has
generally been excellent; when they have been discarded, intonation
has deteriorated immediatedly. It is rather sad, but I fear that most
cellists would rather commit an indecent act than allow another
cellist to catch them with a colored fingerboard."

HTH,
Jon