Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Brass microtones

From: "Paul Erlich" <paul@s...>
>Hi Kami . . . haven't heard from you in a long time! Anyhow, I don't
>think the issue of fingerings is too relevant, because a valved-brass
>ensemble will make fine-tuning adjustments using their _lips_ and not
>their fingers, and any kind of JI in performance is a result of the
>combination of ears and lips . . . never fingers.

How would you lip a F-half-sharp in the middle high register of the trumpet?
You can't lip up from an F, not more than 20 or MAYBE 30 cents. It would not sound good anyway, because the sound quality would suffer.
The intonation from F# lip down would be unreliable, unless the tempo is real slow.
It is better to play the 7th harmonic with the 2-3 fingering, and pull out the 3rd valve slide, if your instrument has one.

19tone fingerings for regular 3-valve trumpet with 1st and 3rd valve slide
( above 2nd line, G clef )
A 1-2
A# 1 (pull 1)
Bb 1 (too flat) or 1-2-3 (pull 1 and 3... not comfortable)
B 2
B# 2-3 (pull 3)
C 0
C# 1-2 (pull 1)
Db 1 (pull 1)
D 1
D# 2-3 (pull 3) (too sharp)
Eb 2 (too flat)

Septimal intonation
(above staff, G Clef)
7G 1-2
G 0
7Ab 1
Ab 2-3
7A 2
A 1-2
7Bb 0
Bb 1
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monz wrote:
> Are brass instruments designed
>at the factory to play 12-EDO or some other tuning? I never
>questioned any of this, always assuming 12-EDO to be standard.

Some other tuning, not 12-EDO. Pressing more than one valve does not multiply their ratio. Different instrument makers distribute the residual errors differently. The approximate ratios that I use are true for a Selmer Bach Stadivarious. On a Jerome Callet Soloist, the fingering 1-3 (don't pull) lowers by 4/3. This instrument has a really sweet 5-limit sound.

If you want to see how bad the residual error management can get, I can send you an Excel worksheet to calculate the intonation of a 4-valve instrument and the total RMS error for all harmonics/fingerings. You can use it to convince yourself that, no matter how hard you try, some notes are going to be out of tune. If you design the instrument yourself, you get to choose which ones are.

The error is usually on the 3rd valve because it is used less often.
This creates intonation problems for the low D (and C#.)

In the lower octave, only harmonics 2, 3 and 4 are available.
In the middle-high octave, harmonics 4, 5, 6 and 7 are available.
The fingering going down by 4/3 is 1-3 (pull 3).
The 1-3 fingering lowers by about 21/16.

In the lower octave, two D's are available:
3rd harmonic, 1-3 --> this is a 8/7 (from low C)
3rd harmonic, 1-3 (pull 3) --> this is a 9/8

In the middle high octave, these two D's are still available with the same fingering, but you also get:
5th harmonic, 1st valve --> this is a 10/9

Klaus said
>"the trumpet fingering has a tendency towards 3-limit"
Regular fingerings that use valve 1 and 2 can be considered 3-limit.

The middle-high octave fingerings are 5-limit:
C 0
C# 1-2
D 1
Eb 2
E 0

But the fingerings from the lower octave can be used for 3-limit in both octaves:
C 0
C# 1-2-3 (pull 3)
D 1-3 (pull 3)
Eb 2-3
E 1-2

7-limit fingerings and pseudo-19-tone fingerings are detailled in my other post.

-Kami
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Brass microtones

🔗Kami ROUSSEAU <kamikulture@hotmail.com>

🔗Kami ROUSSEAU <kamikulture@hotmail.com>

🔗Paul Erlich <paul@stretch-music.com>