Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re: [tuning] Question for Johnny Reinhard/GZ

In a message dated 6/7/2001 1:31:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Afmmjr@aol.com
writes:

> Hi George,
>
> Cents deviations written each time right above the staff, in vertical
> alignment with the notehead. Now, with a minimal set of notes, maybe you
> could do it in a legend. For better certainty, all things being equal, put
> them in for each note. Then it's read by the player something like a
> Chinese
> character.
>
> Best, Johnny Reinhard

Heres another question for you Johnny. I ask this mostly because I do not
have any of your scores available.

1. Where you music is available - I'm new to this thread so I'm not aware.

2. I , guessing, assume you write your notation to the nearest cent. Is this
true or do you write more or less exact?

3. Just curious about this one. Do you have any guess, or better yet
evidence, as to the exactness that your players hit the exact frequencies you
are asking for? Have you done any research on this? My own guess would be at
least 6-10 cents off for any given and maybe much larger if its a fast
passage, but this is by no means a tested theory. I'm curious if you have
tested in performance about this sort of thing?

4. Were you the first one, to the best of your knowledge, to use this
performance notation?

5. Have you tried putting the number of cents, +/- next to the note like a
normal accidental,as oposed to up above the note, or have you found that it
just becomes harder to read for performers?

Thanks in advance. I think your notation, at least as much as I get it (cents
up or down from an equal tempered note) is absolutely wonderful. Its just so
simple.

Andy

🔗George Zelenz <ploo@mindspring.com>

JoJoBuBuAliBaBa,

Someone at the Microfest 2001 conference, whose name i've forgotten
(list members like Monz would know) but was i think a British recorder
player, did very extensive research into performers and accuracy. He had
said 8 cents was a standard deviation for any given pitch, i assume plus
or minus.

Anyone who was there could chime in here and elucidate better than I.

Sorry i have a dim recollection.

JoJoBuBu@aol.com wrote:

> In a message dated 6/7/2001 1:31:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> Afmmjr@aol.com
> writes:
>
>
>
>> Hi George,
>>
>> Cents deviations written each time right above the staff, in
>> vertical
>> alignment with the notehead. Now, with a minimal set of notes,
>> maybe you
>> could do it in a legend. For better certainty, all things being
>> equal, put
>> them in for each note. Then it's read by the player something like
>> a
>> Chinese
>> character.
>>
>> Best, Johnny Reinhard
>
> Heres another question for you Johnny. I ask this mostly because I do
> not
> have any of your scores available.
>
> 1. Where you music is available - I'm new to this thread so I'm not
> aware.
>
> 2. I , guessing, assume you write your notation to the nearest cent.
> Is this
> true or do you write more or less exact?
>
> 3. Just curious about this one. Do you have any guess, or better yet
> evidence, as to the exactness that your players hit the exact
> frequencies you
> are asking for? Have you done any research on this? My own guess would
> be at
> least 6-10 cents off for any given and maybe much larger if its a fast
>
> passage, but this is by no means a tested theory. I'm curious if you
> have
> tested in performance about this sort of thing?
>
> 4. Were you the first one, to the best of your knowledge, to use this
> performance notation?
>
> 5. Have you tried putting the number of cents, +/- next to the note
> like a
> normal accidental,as oposed to up above the note, or have you found
> that it
> just becomes harder to read for performers?
>
> Thanks in advance. I think your notation, at least as much as I get it
> (cents
> up or down from an equal tempered note) is absolutely wonderful. Its
> just so
> simple.
>
> Andy
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🔗Afmmjr@aol.com

In a message dated 6/7/01 4:17:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ploo@mindspring.com writes:

> He had said 8 cents was a standard deviation for any given pitch, I assume
>

I have a real problem with people who have researched the accuracy of
performers. I hear better than they account for. Recently, Skip LaPlante
was arguing for the 6 cents threshold, seeking to apply it to me. I felt
insulted even though not was meant. Skip explained that that was what he
heard. I responded, "don't you think that someone with perfect pitch can
zero in on a single frequency?"

At first he felt unsure, then he thought about it and agreed that this is
what perfect pitch offers, exact frequency recognition. Now, if "they" can
do it, couldn't a wind player do as well? The answer is yes. I've parlor
trick: pick any number up to 1200 and I'll sing it for you. These exercises
in research don't do a thing for me. Mostly, they contradict personal
experience.

Johnny Reinhard

🔗JoJoBuBu@aol.com

Yes very interesting. If anyone does know the name of this british dude and where his studies are published please let me know I'm very interested in this sort of thing.

Thanks in advance,
Andy

JoJoBuBuAliBaBa,

Anyone who was there could chime in here and elucidate better than I.

Sorry i have a dim recollection.

🔗D.Stearns <STEARNS@CAPECOD.NET>

Johnny Reinhard wrote,

<<pick any number up to 1200 and I'll sing it for you.>>

Well, you should be on exhibit somewhere...

What about instruments? Each instrument has its own finicky boons and
bane's, some of which would make certain degrees of accuracy a virtual
impossibility, no... I just can't help but thinking that your making
this all sound a little too easy!

One cent accuracy in musical performance?

I'd sure love to see the results of some analysis of some examples ala
Seashore's early work.

--Dan Stearns

🔗George Zelenz <ploo@mindspring.com>

> I've (a) parlor
> trick: pick any number up to 1200 and I'll sing it for you.

> Johnny Reinhard
>

JOHNNY!

My lucky day. I have an aria for male voice and bongo drums. The bongo's
two pitches are 1/1, and 1200/ 1199.

The voice part utilizes a 1200t-ET.

It's an epic tale set during WW 2, about how the invading German army
could have captured Poland in a third of the time, with no loss of
German life, by marching in backwards.

You game?

-------------------

No sweat Johnny, just one guys research with a recorder. I'm sure he
meant no dis-respect to your well known abilities.

Love,

🔗monz <joemonz@yahoo.com>

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: George Zelenz <ploo@mindspring.com>
> To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 07, 2001 12:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [tuning] Question for Johnny Reinhard/GZ
>

> JoJoBuBuAliBaBa,
>
> Someone at the Microfest 2001 conference, whose name i've forgotten
> (list members like Monz would know) but was i think a British recorder
> player, did very extensive research into performers and accuracy. He had
> said 8 cents was a standard deviation for any given pitch, i assume plus
> or minus.
>
> Anyone who was there could chime in here and elucidate better than I.
>
> Sorry i have a dim recollection.

His name is Donald Bousted. He is associated with Patrick Ozzard-Low,
who was just posting here again last week after a very long absence.
You can look up Ozzard-Low in the list archives and on the web, and
you'll find some stuff.

-monz
http://www.monz.org
"All roads lead to n^0"

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