Esthetics on CSOUND list! Really!

As some of you are undoubtedly aware, there has been some fascinating
discussion recently on the CSOUND list which is related to the topic
on this list about "open source" software. Generally speaking, the
CSOUND list is more noted for such arcane postings as long lines of
source code (they make me nervous, since I know if even ONE little
letter is off… oh well.)

The discussion centers upon the whole revolution, I believe, which
*is* or at least *was* the Internet and the idea that intellectual
property *CAN* (note, I didn't say "should be") a *SHARED* human
experience. This, of course, applies to both programs, source code
and, even, .mp3's as we can see with the recent wrestling of
contemporary society with mp3.com and Napster.

Of course, such grandiose intellectual sharing implies an entirely
different economic model, if there is one, and we needn't get into
that here.

Regarding the more limited discussion on the CSOUND list, the
question regards the posting of .orc and .sco (orchestra and score
files… the basic building blocks of the compositions) and the
right
of composers to share or "tweak" others' work. Personally, I'm
finding this discussion fascinating, and related to some of the "open
source" discussions we have been having on this list….

Naturally, since it is a "flame war," our good friend Jeff Harrington
is in the middle of it.

In the spirit of the "open source" movement, I am freely copying from
the CSOUND list to THIS list for our mutual edification,
entertainment and, possibly, exasperation:

Harrington's post:

"This statement also evinces a complete lack of understanding of the
way any artists work. Give me credit... Sorry to be blunt, but the
Csound community is divided, IMO, into two very obvious camps, the
programmers/geeks and the composers. Most of the programmers call
themselves composers but actually don't do anything but tweak sounds
endlessly. This project promotes that type of musical tweaking way
above real artistry.

This project as I pointed out in a not so apt way, is prejudicial to
artists. It promotes a pathetic view of music as sound "work" and
not a poetic expression that is labored over. I can guarantee you,
that you'll find no artists participating in this project but a few
student geeks if you don't find a way to temper the projects bias
towards "sharing" of credit.

Outside of the "remix" phenomenon in the electronica world, there is
no model of this type of collaboration producing anything
significant. This doesn't mean it can't work, of course, but my
guess is that the geeks who want to try this out are really looking
for two things.

1. They want to get credit for making sounds themselves as pieces,
because they're too lame a composer to finish a whole piece.

2. They want to get credit for being cool anarchists in sharing
these "works" in a Open Source way. Music is NOT a form of
programming! I'm a programmer and a musician and I know the
difference. Many of the programmers on the list do not.

By prejudicing the project against completed works of art where the
artist refuses to allow further "commentary" you will guarantee this
project dies the same lame death that all the other "sharing" art
projects do. And the whole project plays into this phenomenon we
have on the list of programmers who call themselves composers without
ever writing a piece. And now they're dissing the composers... who
would have thunk that! :)

You know, what pisses me off the most about the insinuations about
the project is a core insinuation about selfishness. It's not enough
that serious artists today have problems with distribution,
competition with pop culture, but we've got geeks accusing us of not
sharing enough.

Might I suggest that there are many artists out there that would love
to participate in this project with one basic proviso:

"Don't even think about touching my shit. But please listen to it
and love it without cost to you and please listen to my friend's
music on the tree too."

jeff harrington
Open Source Java Programmer and Composer
Don't Tread on Me! :)
http://www.parnasse.com/jeff.htm

And, just one other post as a response to a "riposte":

> Jeff.:
>
> For a few years now, there's probably a new kind of artistry
happening. Maldonano, FFitch, Ingalls, Zicarrelli, Max Matthews, the
people at native instruments, Tom Erbe..., are some of these new
artists. Providing you tools so that you can make your own tools.
>

"Their work is appreciated by this composer and they know it.
Calling them artists however, for programming work, even the
conceptualization of tools is an exaggeration I believe, but not
worthy of a semantic argument.

> What Robino has proposed is simply a way to catalog Csound sounds
and their evolution. Pretty much the same way that the Virus or
NordLead community share their sounds, but also charting their
growth.

> No one suggests these are compositions, although some are very
artistic and inspiring.
>

My commentary was on the discussion and the direction it was being
led in. The suggestions were made that these were compositions and
the suggestion was made that their was some type of ethical
superiority to sound work that was "shared" over complete
compositions. It was this insinuation that I was railing against.

> I'm sure, however, the Ctree could include compositions. It would
be great to see the evolution and growth of some of your work, from a
first draft to final piece.
>

That would be cool, but it would expose some of the magic that I
attempt to hide in my pieces. (In other words, I would probably not
want to share the inept pre-compositional moments with my colleagues!
Ha ahahaha...).

Eloy, I'm well aware of the many places I can share my Csound
compostions being one of the earliest composers on the web (1991) to
share not only my source (complete PS scores, complete orc and sco
files) but complete realizations. What I would love to see, is what
Giorgio suggested earlier on (although the bias towards evolving
sound work was already evident) that this would be a powerful way to
demonstrate to not just to the Csound community, but the web at
large, the power of Csound and the beauty being created by many
members of the Csound community, programmers and musicians alike. My
commentary was attempting to drive home the fact early biases in the
conceptualization of these structures can doom the project to another
shared web project (like that MIDI project in the early 1990's).

Artists need your help and artists, frankly, are the only reason
Csound exists. It is used by programmers to share code, DSP
algorhythms, etc... but Csound is a tool not for making Csound but
for one thing:

Making music. And musicians that use Csound need support and need
your ears. I would hope that the entire Csound community would rally
around this project and other projects suggested recently to promote
Csound music and musicians. If Csound is to evolve beyond a geek
programmer plaything and into a real tool, it'll need musical
evidence that it is worthy of the steep learning curve required to
use it.

jeff harrington
http://www.parnasse.com/jeff.htm

__________ _____ _____ _____
Joseph Pehrson