Re: [tuning] Digest Number 1218

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the link, and had a first look. Interesting site.

Interesting ideas about virtual melody in
http://www.mmk.ei.tum.de/persons/ter/top/basse.html
So, I wonder if one can also get a virtual melody using inharmonic
timbres - I'm asking if one can add to this idea, rather than trying
to refute it!

Maybe some percussion sounds do use noise, but a fair number
have clear partials, as do bells (modern church bell is
tuned, to bring the partials into consonance, but others aren't).

The idea of the experiment was to make an _inharmonic_ timbre with
a number of clear partials, with one of them strong, as
is the case for most _harmonic_ timbres.

Then get used to that timbre.

After some listening of that, try anothr timbre with all the
other identical partials to that one, but leaving out the strong partial.

I.e.

Timbre 1
partials R S T U V

S say is very strong

Timbre 2
partials R S' T U V

S' is an octave below S, and somewhat quieter, so that now, say,
T is the strongest of the remaining partials.

Connection with bells is that bells often don't have any partial
corresponding to the perceived pitch, but instead have a partial an
octave below it, which seems to help to lead the ear to the exact
perceived pitch of the note.

Now idea is, after repeatedly listening and working with timbre 1,
play timbre 2. Does one hear the pitch as S?

The hypothesis to test is that one will.

However, that by itself isn't sufficiently convincing, as if it works,
one could always suggest that it is the harmonic series that is somehow
involved in it.

So next, find someone who has never heard timbre 1. Ask them to
try out Timbre 2.

Do they hear the pitch of Timbre 2 as S, or perhaps as T?

I'd probably be able to set it up in FTS come to think of it,
using MIDI for the partials. Then one could try playing in the
two timbres - that interactivity could help one to focus more
on the pitch of the timbre.

One might get a percentage type answer - 70% hear the pitch of
Timbre 2 as S, say, or that 70% of the time a given listener
will hear it as S.

Robert

Robert Walker wrote,

>Maybe some percussion sounds do use noise, but a fair number
>have clear partials, as do bells

Right, and bells don't have clear pitches -- if you have someone match the
pitch of a sine wave to that of a bell, you'll get several "peaks".

>(modern church bell is
>tuned, to bring the partials into consonance,

Consonance?

>but others aren't).

Don't know what you mean here.

>The idea of the experiment was to make an _inharmonic_ >timbre with
>a number of clear partials, with one of them strong, as
>is the case for most _harmonic_ timbres.

I disagree that that is the case for most harmonic timbres.

>Connection with bells is that bells often don't have any partial
>corresponding to the perceived pitch, but instead have a partial an
>octave below it, which seems to help to lead the ear to the exact
>perceived pitch of the note.

Thought it was an octave above it, which would make more sense in terms of
the "missing fundamental" phenomenon.

But of course the octave has an inherent similarity of its own, so I'd use
some other interval in your experiment.