Re: Inharmonic timbres

Hi Paul,

I think all these are pitched to some degree, and not particularly harmonic:

door shutting.

gate squeaking.

Knock on door or glass.

At least, if one may be a bit uncertain about the exact pitch to assign,
one can hear that they go up or down, for instance, that a harder knock
on a pane of glass is higher pitched than a quieter one.

Choosing every day sounds deliberately - everyone can tell whether a sound
they hear is a gate squeaking or a door shutting, or a knock on the door,
rather than on a window, so must have some kind of a timbre as the "pitches"
vary greatly. It suggests one doesn't need to train to hear such things as timbres.

Another thought, relating to traffic noise and the discussion
of inharmonic timbres - I wonder if motor enthusiasts learn
to distinguish their particular type of car, motorbike
or whatever amongst the traffic. If so, since pitch
varies, could be a kind of timbre too.

Or, an easier one, anyone can tell the difference between a train,
a car, aeroplane, helicopter, lorry, and motorbike. The dustbin lorry
doesn't just sound like a loud car for instance.

I'd call all those inharmonic timbres too.

I know that some of them have varying components that one uses to
identify them , but same applies to musical instrument timbres too.

I suppose, what I think of as a timbre is a kind of nexus of sound that
has a "personality" that one can learn to pick out in a crowd of
other timbres. I.e. a very general use of the word.

Robert

Robert,

Your descriptions here are remarkably similar to those of Jay Williams
who has posted some wonderful stuff along these lines. Jay also has
perfect pitch and can distinguish amongst these "sound personalities"
to a rather unnerving degree. (Try searching the archives for his
train whistle and car horn post.)

With the right conditions -- a slightly leaky faucet in an
acoustically wet room for instance -- water drops can play out
amazingly complex xenharmonic melodies. Nice rhythms too!

--Dan Stearns

--- In tuning@y..., "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> I think all these are pitched to some degree, and not
particularly harmonic:
>
> door shutting.

To some degree.
>
> gate squeaking.

Might be a lot more harmonic than you think!
>
> Knock on door or glass.
>
> At least, if one may be a bit uncertain about the exact pitch to
assign,
> one can hear that they go up or down,

Well, sure, with any spectrum (except for special ones like the
Shepard tones) one can hear that it goes up or down.

> for instance, that a harder knock
> on a pane of glass is higher pitched than a quieter one.
>
> Choosing every day sounds deliberately - everyone can tell
whether a sound
> they hear is a gate squeaking or a door shutting, or a knock on
the door,
> rather than on a window, so must have some kind of a timbre

Absolutely.

as the "pitches"
> vary greatly.

Don't follow you.

>It suggests one doesn't need to train to hear such things as
>timbres.

I think you've missed my point.
>
> Another thought, relating to traffic noise and the discussion
> of inharmonic timbres - I wonder if motor enthusiasts learn
> to distinguish their particular type of car, motorbike
> or whatever amongst the traffic. If so, since pitch
> varies, could be a kind of timbre too.
>
> Or, an easier one, anyone can tell the difference between a
train,
> a car, aeroplane, helicopter, lorry, and motorbike. The dustbin
lorry
> doesn't just sound like a loud car for instance.
>
> I'd call all those inharmonic timbres too.

Definitely!
>

Robert, I think we can come to some sort of agreement if we at
least have a good set of definitions. Please take a look at Ernst
Terhardt's website and scroll down to "definition of pitch", read
that, and read all the adjacent articles too. I think you'll find that
our opinions are not as difficult to reconcile as you might think.

Dan Stearns wrote:

> Robert,
>
> Your descriptions here are remarkably similar to those of Jay Williams
> who has posted some wonderful stuff along these lines. Jay also has
> perfect pitch and can distinguish amongst these "sound personalities"
> to a rather unnerving degree. (Try searching the archives for his
> train whistle and car horn post.)
>
> With the right conditions -- a slightly leaky faucet in an
> acoustically wet room for instance -- water drops can play out
> amazingly complex xenharmonic melodies. Nice rhythms too!

I recently heard a fascinating interview of Steven Stills (of Crosby, Still, Nash, and Young and permutations
thereof) in which he described hearing music in everyday sounds since he was a little boy. He said something
to the effect that writing music for him involved turning memories of those sound patterns into song.
Unfortunately, he didn't go into much detail on that topic, and most of the interview would not necessarily be
of interest to "tuners," as such, but here's a link to it on the web (Real Audio):

http://wpln.org/fineprint_archive/fineprint032501.html

--
David J. Finnamore
Nashville, TN, USA
http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html
--