[tuning]: This is for anyone

I have a question. I like to try out weird things on the guitar. I
wonder if anyone has the oddest sounding scale and/or tuning thought of.
I would appreicate it.
I try out very alternate tunings based of dissonance and odd intervals,
but there always seems to be a limit on what I can do wiht that.

-Jason

On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:24 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
graham@microtonal.co.uk writes:
>Mats �ljare wrote:
>
>> 7/6 = 8/7
>> (comma eliminated:49/48)
>>
>> This means in practice that the 7/4 approximation divides the fifth
>> exactly in half from above.It is usually a rather poor approximation
>
>> and does not gain many favorable structural properties either,except
>
>> for building the"pentaenharmonic"9-tone MOS using this interval as a
>
>> generator.
>>
>> Example tunings:19,24,29 equal
>
>I don't think 24 should be in this list as it's not 7-limit
>consistent.
>But you can put 5-equal in its place. Does anybody have a name for
>this
>interval?
>
>> 12/11 = 11/10
>> (comma eliminated:121/120)
>>
>> In practice this means the 11/8 is exactly between the 5/4 and the
>> 3/2,of which the near perfect 24TET rendition is a perfect
>example.The
>> 31TET 11/4 is flat,but the other flat intervals in this tuning makes
>it
>> acceptable.However,there aren�t many structural features to be
>gained
>> by this approximation.
>>
>> Example tunings:24,31 equal
>
>Also 38. In general, all meantone neutral-third scales have this
>approximation. It follows from 9/8=10/9 and (11/9)^2=3/2. You need
>it
>for the "wolf third" in the 7 note MOS to be a 5:6 minor third. Or
>for
>the other neutral third scale to have a 5-limit pentatonic as a
>subset.
>That scale also has an approximation to 8:9:10:11:12.
>
>> 13/12 = 12/11
>> (comma eliminated:144/143)
>>
>> This is a very useful comma bridge because it allows incorporation
>of
>> the 11 and 13-limit through only one new interval,usually the
>neutral
>> third,which takes the function of both 11/9 and 16/13.
>>
>> Example tunings:17,24,29,31 equal
>
>That can also be written 13/8 = 18/11.
>
>> 15/14 = 14/13
>> (comma eliminated:196/195)
>>
>> Only seems to come with tunings that also discard the 225/224.In
>that
>> case,it is useful because it allows a 5-7-13(possibly 11-limit with
>> extra commatics)bridge to be expressed in one continous"line"as in
>> 31-tet:C,B(15/8),A#(7/4),A-(13/8).
>>
>> Example tunings:19,31
>
>I'm not sure either of these are consistent in the context. 19-equal
>isn't consistent for 13/8, 7/4 and 14/13. I can't find an
>inconsistency
>in 31, although it isn't consistent for the full 15-limit.
>
>> 16/15 = 15/14
>> (comma eliminated:225/224)
>>
>> A fundamental to 7-limit scales and harmony,to many.The 15/8 and 7/4
>
>> together with the tonic forms a continous"triad"upon wich a scale
>can
>> be based.In fact almost all tunings that contain a good 7/4
>approximate
>> it this way.
>>
>> Example tunings:12,19,22,31
>
>Also 41 and 53 to be fair and treat all families equally. It's easier
>to
>list 7-limit scales without this approximation. I came up with 26, 46
>and
>118.
>
>> The next part(if i will do one)will deal with more complex
>commas,such
>> as 13/11=12/10,the"neutral third"concept and such.I am not really a
>> technical writer though so if anybody who could make more sense out
>of
>> it wants to continue on this,it would be appreciated.Thanks for
>now...
>
>I hope you will! Nobody becomes a technical writer until they write
>technically. You're doing well already, to express yourself so
>clearly in
>English.
>
> Graham
>
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I question the reason for weird tunings. I like tunings that accomodate my
fingers. Finger economy allows one to find music more easily.
The more "standard alternate tunings" (DADGAD, Open D, Open G, etc...) all
offer tremendous potential for good music. I rely on open strings a lot when
I write music, so if an open string gave me dissonance, I normally would
change it to something that seems to fit.
Simplify - simplify - simplify

If you find a wild tuning, and offer some cheater chords that fit, let me
know.

Thanks,
Travis www.freestyleguitar.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Rogers" <jason1275@juno.com>
To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 7:04 PM
Subject: [tuning]: This is for anyone

> I have a question. I like to try out weird things on the guitar. I
> wonder if anyone has the oddest sounding scale and/or tuning thought of.
> I would appreicate it.
> I try out very alternate tunings based of dissonance and odd intervals,
> but there always seems to be a limit on what I can do wiht that.
>
> -Jason
>
> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:24 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
> graham@microtonal.co.uk writes:
> >Mats �ljare wrote:
> >
> >> 7/6 = 8/7
> >> (comma eliminated:49/48)
> >>
> >> This means in practice that the 7/4 approximation divides the fifth
> >> exactly in half from above.It is usually a rather poor approximation
> >
> >> and does not gain many favorable structural properties either,except
> >
> >> for building the"pentaenharmonic"9-tone MOS using this interval as a
> >
> >> generator.
> >>
> >> Example tunings:19,24,29 equal
> >
> >I don't think 24 should be in this list as it's not 7-limit
> >consistent.
> >But you can put 5-equal in its place. Does anybody have a name for
> >this
> >interval?
> >
> >> 12/11 = 11/10
> >> (comma eliminated:121/120)
> >>
> >> In practice this means the 11/8 is exactly between the 5/4 and the
> >> 3/2,of which the near perfect 24TET rendition is a perfect
> >example.The
> >> 31TET 11/4 is flat,but the other flat intervals in this tuning makes
> >it
> >> acceptable.However,there aren�t many structural features to be
> >gained
> >> by this approximation.
> >>
> >> Example tunings:24,31 equal
> >
> >Also 38. In general, all meantone neutral-third scales have this
> >approximation. It follows from 9/8=10/9 and (11/9)^2=3/2. You need
> >it
> >for the "wolf third" in the 7 note MOS to be a 5:6 minor third. Or
> >for
> >the other neutral third scale to have a 5-limit pentatonic as a
> >subset.
> >That scale also has an approximation to 8:9:10:11:12.
> >
> >> 13/12 = 12/11
> >> (comma eliminated:144/143)
> >>
> >> This is a very useful comma bridge because it allows incorporation
> >of
> >> the 11 and 13-limit through only one new interval,usually the
> >neutral
> >> third,which takes the function of both 11/9 and 16/13.
> >>
> >> Example tunings:17,24,29,31 equal
> >
> >That can also be written 13/8 = 18/11.
> >
> >> 15/14 = 14/13
> >> (comma eliminated:196/195)
> >>
> >> Only seems to come with tunings that also discard the 225/224.In
> >that
> >> case,it is useful because it allows a 5-7-13(possibly 11-limit with
> >> extra commatics)bridge to be expressed in one continous"line"as in
> >> 31-tet:C,B(15/8),A#(7/4),A-(13/8).
> >>
> >> Example tunings:19,31
> >
> >I'm not sure either of these are consistent in the context. 19-equal
> >isn't consistent for 13/8, 7/4 and 14/13. I can't find an
> >inconsistency
> >in 31, although it isn't consistent for the full 15-limit.
> >
> >> 16/15 = 15/14
> >> (comma eliminated:225/224)
> >>
> >> A fundamental to 7-limit scales and harmony,to many.The 15/8 and 7/4
> >
> >> together with the tonic forms a continous"triad"upon wich a scale
> >can
> >> be based.In fact almost all tunings that contain a good 7/4
> >approximate
> >> it this way.
> >>
> >> Example tunings:12,19,22,31
> >
> >Also 41 and 53 to be fair and treat all families equally. It's easier
> >to
> >list 7-limit scales without this approximation. I came up with 26, 46
> >and
> >118.
> >
> >> The next part(if i will do one)will deal with more complex
> >commas,such
> >> as 13/11=12/10,the"neutral third"concept and such.I am not really a
> >> technical writer though so if anybody who could make more sense out
> >of
> >> it wants to continue on this,it would be appreciated.Thanks for
> >now...
> >
> >I hope you will! Nobody becomes a technical writer until they write
> >technically. You're doing well already, to express yourself so
> >clearly in
> >English.
> >
> > Graham
> >
> >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> >
> >You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> >email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
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> >group.
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> > tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
> >
> >
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> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
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>
>

Well, I do have some odd tunings that my band plays with
1. CECECE (Low to high) Which is like playing three very dissonant power
chords at once. You can mostly just play different power chords with
this but it sounds really wicked.
2. Is a power chord tuning to a certain key. You tune low to high in
two triads a fifth apart. This will make the two middle strings the same
note, so it plays in unison.
3. AACCDD (low to high) but when you play it and slide your fingers up
and donw the fretbroad, it comes out like AxCxDx or xAxCxD unless you got
extremely skinny fingers which I don't.
4. EFEF#ED# which I play normal chords with and it gives it an extremely
dissonant sound.
I got a bunch more. If you want to hear my band's demo I would be happy
to send you one

-Jason

On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:10:05 -0500 "Travis Nevels"
<travisn@mindspring.com> writes:
>I question the reason for weird tunings. I like tunings that
>accomodate my
>fingers. Finger economy allows one to find music more easily.
>The more "standard alternate tunings" (DADGAD, Open D, Open G, etc...)
>all
>offer tremendous potential for good music. I rely on open strings a
>lot when
>I write music, so if an open string gave me dissonance, I normally
>would
>change it to something that seems to fit.
>Simplify - simplify - simplify
>
>If you find a wild tuning, and offer some cheater chords that fit, let
>me
>know.
>
>Thanks,
>Travis www.freestyleguitar.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jason Rogers" <jason1275@juno.com>
>To: <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 7:04 PM
>Subject: [tuning]: This is for anyone
>
>
>> I have a question. I like to try out weird things on the guitar. I
>> wonder if anyone has the oddest sounding scale and/or tuning thought
>of.
>> I would appreicate it.
>> I try out very alternate tunings based of dissonance and odd
>intervals,
>> but there always seems to be a limit on what I can do wiht that.
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>> On Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:24 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
>> graham@microtonal.co.uk writes:
>> >Mats �ljare wrote:
>> >
>> >> 7/6 = 8/7
>> >> (comma eliminated:49/48)
>> >>
>> >> This means in practice that the 7/4 approximation divides the
>fifth
>> >> exactly in half from above.It is usually a rather poor
>approximation
>> >
>> >> and does not gain many favorable structural properties
>either,except
>> >
>> >> for building the"pentaenharmonic"9-tone MOS using this interval
>as a
>> >
>> >> generator.
>> >>
>> >> Example tunings:19,24,29 equal
>> >
>> >I don't think 24 should be in this list as it's not 7-limit
>> >consistent.
>> >But you can put 5-equal in its place. Does anybody have a name for
>> >this
>> >interval?
>> >
>> >> 12/11 = 11/10
>> >> (comma eliminated:121/120)
>> >>
>> >> In practice this means the 11/8 is exactly between the 5/4 and
>the
>> >> 3/2,of which the near perfect 24TET rendition is a perfect
>> >example.The
>> >> 31TET 11/4 is flat,but the other flat intervals in this tuning
>makes
>> >it
>> >> acceptable.However,there aren�t many structural features to be
>> >gained
>> >> by this approximation.
>> >>
>> >> Example tunings:24,31 equal
>> >
>> >Also 38. In general, all meantone neutral-third scales have this
>> >approximation. It follows from 9/8=10/9 and (11/9)^2=3/2. You
>need
>> >it
>> >for the "wolf third" in the 7 note MOS to be a 5:6 minor third. Or
>> >for
>> >the other neutral third scale to have a 5-limit pentatonic as a
>> >subset.
>> >That scale also has an approximation to 8:9:10:11:12.
>> >
>> >> 13/12 = 12/11
>> >> (comma eliminated:144/143)
>> >>
>> >> This is a very useful comma bridge because it allows
>incorporation
>> >of
>> >> the 11 and 13-limit through only one new interval,usually the
>> >neutral
>> >> third,which takes the function of both 11/9 and 16/13.
>> >>
>> >> Example tunings:17,24,29,31 equal
>> >
>> >That can also be written 13/8 = 18/11.
>> >
>> >> 15/14 = 14/13
>> >> (comma eliminated:196/195)
>> >>
>> >> Only seems to come with tunings that also discard the 225/224.In
>> >that
>> >> case,it is useful because it allows a 5-7-13(possibly 11-limit
>with
>> >> extra commatics)bridge to be expressed in one continous"line"as
>in
>> >> 31-tet:C,B(15/8),A#(7/4),A-(13/8).
>> >>
>> >> Example tunings:19,31
>> >
>> >I'm not sure either of these are consistent in the context.
>19-equal
>> >isn't consistent for 13/8, 7/4 and 14/13. I can't find an
>> >inconsistency
>> >in 31, although it isn't consistent for the full 15-limit.
>> >
>> >> 16/15 = 15/14
>> >> (comma eliminated:225/224)
>> >>
>> >> A fundamental to 7-limit scales and harmony,to many.The 15/8 and
>7/4
>> >
>> >> together with the tonic forms a continous"triad"upon wich a scale
>> >can
>> >> be based.In fact almost all tunings that contain a good 7/4
>> >approximate
>> >> it this way.
>> >>
>> >> Example tunings:12,19,22,31
>> >
>> >Also 41 and 53 to be fair and treat all families equally. It's
>easier
>> >to
>> >list 7-limit scales without this approximation. I came up with 26,
>46
>> >and
>> >118.
>> >
>> >> The next part(if i will do one)will deal with more complex
>> >commas,such
>> >> as 13/11=12/10,the"neutral third"concept and such.I am not really
>a
>> >> technical writer though so if anybody who could make more sense
>out
>> >of
>> >> it wants to continue on this,it would be appreciated.Thanks for
>> >now...
>> >
>> >I hope you will! Nobody becomes a technical writer until they
>write
>> >technically. You're doing well already, to express yourself so
>> >clearly in
>> >English.
>> >
>> > Graham
>> >
>> >------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>> >
>> >You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe
>through
>> >email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
>> > tuning-subscribe@yahoogroups.com - join the tuning group.
>> > tuning-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning
>> >group.
>> > tuning-nomail@yahoogroups.com - put your email message delivery
>on
>> >hold for the tuning group.
>> > tuning-digest@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to daily
>> >digest mode.
>> > tuning-normal@yahoogroups.com - change your subscription to
>> >individual emails.
>> > tuning-help@yahoogroups.com - receive general help information.
>> >
>> >
>> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
>> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________
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>>
>> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe
>through
>> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
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>mode.
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>emails.
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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Not that it really matters all that much, but I think far fewer people
(i.e., none) would be confused as to the topic of discussion here if
this list were called something along the lines of the "microtonal
discussion group", or "the microtonal mailing list".

While 'politically' neutral, "alternate tunings" is awkward in the
sense that it will continue to be regularly mistaken for the
non-standard tuning of the guitar's open strings.

--Dan Stearns