Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning 1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 1377/1024 17/12 119/80 51/32 17/10 85/48 119/64 2/1

1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 1377/1024 17/12 119/80 51/32 17/10
85/48 119/64 2/1
0 105.0 175.6 308.9 420.6 512.8 603 687.5 806.9 918.6
989.3 1073.8 1200

Pat hi and gracious greetings to you

my first observation is that you have related most of the intervals to the
17/16 directly or near-directly, and that the tonic is not as directly
related.

You've used 3s 5s 7s & 17s as factors in the generative process - sometimes
very high numbers - these seem to me to be the outcome of chains of fifths
or in one case two thirds, over and above the 17/16.

425 = 17 x 5 x 5
153 = 17 x 3 x 3
119 = 7 x 17
1377 = 17 x 3 x 3 x 3 x 3
85 = 5 x 17
51 = 3 x 17

Just a few arithmetical reflections

In fact to illustrate my point about the intervals relating most directly to
the 17/16, here's the tuning measured in relation to the 17/16 pitch:

Original PP-DB-er
1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 1377/1024 17/12 119/80 51/32 17/10
85/48 119/64 2/1

In rel to 17:16:
25/24 9/8 6/5 81/64 4/3 7/5 3/2 8/5 5/3 7/4 32/17 2/1

in rel to the original 153/28:
the 17/12 is a 7/6
the 51/32 is a 4/3

If I were designing a scale in response to yours, I might look at some
multiples of lower primes in relation to the tonic as well as to the 17:16.
That way the tonic might feel a bit happier, having a few friends to whom it
might relate more directly - otherwise the 17 guys might get a bit cliquey
......who knows, and then there will only be one 17 ratio left (the 32/17).

I might use:
PP/DB:1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 1377/1024 17/12 119/80 51/32
17/10 85/48 119/64 2/1
LB: 1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 21/16 17/12 3/2 51/32
17/10 7/4 119/64 2/1
now you have the 17:16 and the 3:2 and the 51/32 breathing together, an
interesting tetrad chord
I would use a 7:4 (delicious), which locks in the 3/2 and the 21/16 into a
great business: 3,7 and 21 go well together and also makes a wonderful party
with the 17, the 51 and the 119.

You've got me interested now I'll have to try yours AND my
variation..........

Its amazing there are 66 relationships between 2 notes, 220 between 3 notes
......(in a "12" tuning that is), so many interrelationships, (knew it for a
million years but I just started thinking about it).

LaMonte Young uses only chains of 3:2 and 7:4 in The Well-Tuned Piano as
generator intervals, so that each note is either a chain of fifths or a
chain of harmonic 7ths (7:4s), or both, away from the tonic.

Will listen later to how my Korg sounds with your tuning, .......no album
though!
Looking forward to hearing your music on CD enormously
R & E (& B)
your cyberfriend

Lawrence

I am so glad you are interested Lawrence.
I shall drop your tuning into the f-tables this evening
i initially started thinking about scales that were multiples constrained to
certain numbers ratios initially whilst exploring La Monte Youngs' work.
About the time Sound and Light came out i had also recieved a copy of
Alain's book. i was tuning up to Shankar records as the nearest Seetar
teacher was 500 miles from me. So i began tweaking scales that were all
based on 1 particular interval with their only "relationship" being usually
a seventeeness, attempting to expand the implied 7 limit it hindoo music to
the prime 17 -- i was deep in Pythag world using the Holy tetrakys -10 and
adding 7 and believing that Shankar's SA was indeed a 17/16.
Recently as in the piece David and I debuted @ AFMM (sans echoes) we used a
"mixed JI" scale that did not adhere to one particular limit in what some
would call "Advanced Just Intonation" or a tuning not easily definable to
beginners...but obviously you folks on this list know your tunings. We
wanted (@AFMM) a tuning that would function not simply as a tuning but as a
score with certain members of the scale pre-designated as (Functions) where
something would happen in the hallways of the structure -Ataraxya- a term
revived by Beardsley in regards to our Collaboration. @afmm we explored
neutral 17(ness) even though our gorgeous chords were occult due to tech
probs....
......three years later- the phone rings.....
he called to say
"the performance is finished"

I hope that we will get the opportunity to play a piece or two in England
this coming year, dear Lawrence.
It would be a joy to play a few shows with you across the pond.
blessings and check that mail!

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Ball <Lawrenceball@planettree.demon.co.uk>
To: tuning <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 7:36 AM
Subject: [tuning] 1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 1377/1024 17/12 119/80
51/32 17/10 85/48 119/64 2/1

>
> 1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 1377/1024 17/12 119/80 51/32
17/10
> 85/48 119/64 2/1
> 0 105.0 175.6 308.9 420.6 512.8 603 687.5 806.9
918.6
> 989.3 1073.8 1200
>
> Pat hi and gracious greetings to you
>
> my first observation is that you have related most of the intervals to the
> 17/16 directly or near-directly, and that the tonic is not as directly
> related.
>
> You've used 3s 5s 7s & 17s as factors in the generative process -
sometimes
> very high numbers - these seem to me to be the outcome of chains of fifths
> or in one case two thirds, over and above the 17/16.
>
> 425 = 17 x 5 x 5
> 153 = 17 x 3 x 3
> 119 = 7 x 17
> 1377 = 17 x 3 x 3 x 3 x 3
> 85 = 5 x 17
> 51 = 3 x 17
>
> Just a few arithmetical reflections
>
> In fact to illustrate my point about the intervals relating most directly
to
> the 17/16, here's the tuning measured in relation to the 17/16 pitch:
>
> Original PP-DB-er
> 1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 1377/1024 17/12 119/80 51/32
17/10
> 85/48 119/64 2/1
>
> In rel to 17:16:
> 25/24 9/8 6/5 81/64 4/3 7/5 3/2 8/5 5/3 7/4 32/17 2/1
>
> in rel to the original 153/28:
> the 17/12 is a 7/6
> the 51/32 is a 4/3
>
> If I were designing a scale in response to yours, I might look at some
> multiples of lower primes in relation to the tonic as well as to the
17:16.
> That way the tonic might feel a bit happier, having a few friends to whom
it
> might relate more directly - otherwise the 17 guys might get a bit cliquey
> ......who knows, and then there will only be one 17 ratio left (the
32/17).
>
> I might use:
> PP/DB:1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 1377/1024 17/12 119/80 51/32
> 17/10 85/48 119/64 2/1
> LB: 1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 21/16 17/12 3/2 51/32
> 17/10 7/4 119/64 2/1
> now you have the 17:16 and the 3:2 and the 51/32 breathing together, an
> interesting tetrad chord
> I would use a 7:4 (delicious), which locks in the 3/2 and the 21/16 into a
> great business: 3,7 and 21 go well together and also makes a wonderful
party
> with the 17, the 51 and the 119.
>
> You've got me interested now I'll have to try yours AND my
> variation..........
>
> Its amazing there are 66 relationships between 2 notes, 220 between 3
notes
> ......(in a "12" tuning that is), so many interrelationships, (knew it for
a
> million years but I just started thinking about it).
>
> LaMonte Young uses only chains of 3:2 and 7:4 in The Well-Tuned Piano as
> generator intervals, so that each note is either a chain of fifths or a
> chain of harmonic 7ths (7:4s), or both, away from the tonic.
>
> Will listen later to how my Korg sounds with your tuning, .......no album
> though!
> Looking forward to hearing your music on CD enormously
> R & E (& B)
> your cyberfriend
>
> Lawrence
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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1/1 17/16 425/384 153/128 51/40 1377/1024 17/12 119/80 51/32 17/10 85/48 119/64 2/1

🔗Lawrence Ball <Lawrenceball@planettree.demon.co.uk>

🔗shreeswifty <ppagano@bellsouth.net>

🔗shreeswifty <ppagano@bellsouth.net>