RE: [tuning] Re: Numbers, notes, art, and artiface. (was: Tumblin g Dekany in 3D and stereo)

Move over Kraig Grady! This is great, Dave, and makes the point perfectly!!!

Paul,

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:
> Move over Kraig Grady! This is great, Dave, and makes the point
perfectly!!!

Um, no it doesn't. And it does *not* equate whatsoever to people who
have put time and thought into not only creating a musical universe,
and a mythology to go along with it, but creating the instruments as
well, not to mention an ensemble of actual human beings to play it.

Not to mention that by the very dichotomy of your one line response,
Paul, you have clearly posted, for all to see, that you firmly in the
camp of pitting one side against another, as you have seemingly done
for months and years. Kraig vs. Dave. How completely infantile, even
if in some rudimentary form of humor.

Dave, I'll reply to your post a little later after the house guest
has left for the evening, as it really does raise some points worth
mentioning. And I hasten to add that by taking the time to post that,
it does give another perspective to the matter and I am grateful that
it means enough for you to take the time, even if I don't eventually
agree.

Paul, the only comments left for you are best off-list. This place is
getting to be like the XFL...

Anon,
Jon

Jon wrote,

>Paul, you have clearly posted, for all to see, that you firmly in the
>camp of pitting one side against another, as you have seemingly done
>for months and years. Kraig vs. Dave. How completely infantile, even
>if in some rudimentary form of humor.

That is completely untrue. I desire no ill will between Kraig and Dave;
indeed I'd forgotten that any once existed.

Dear Jon Szanto,

I'm not sure whether you understood this or not, but I was in fact very far
from pitting Dave Keenan and Kraig Grady against one another -- rather I was
complementing Dave Keenan in suggesting that his wonderful creativity
approaches that of Kraig Grady, who's created a tremendously rich and
fantastical (and fictional) island, culture, and musical history, also using
Erv Wilson's scales and ideas. Many of Kraig Grady's compositional
procedures, such as horagram rhythms and eikosany tetrad sequences, are
algorithmic in nature, and are made "artistic" by endowing them with a good
story and lovely graphics.

If Dave Keenan meant this to in any way poke fun of or put himself above
Kraig Grady, which I severly doubt, I would not be pleased with that state
of affairs, and would never seek to encourage it.

This is 100% true and if you have trouble believing this was my intent, I
must plead that it is the difficulty of communicating in this medium -- if
you knew me in person (like a small number of people on this list, and of
course many off it), you'd know that I'm not in the business of breeding
antagonism.

Much love,
Paul

Dear Paul,

Congratulations for remaining calm under fire. I had no intention of
comparison with Kraig Grady. In fact I couldn't work out what the
correspondence was, until Jon's reply.

Dear Jon,

I'm certain that you have misinterpreted Paul's post, as he claims.
Didn't you just do what you were (very sensibly) warning us not to do
in an earlier post?

Regards,
-- Dave Keenan

Paul,

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:
> I'm not sure whether you understood this or not, but I was in fact
very far
> from pitting Dave Keenan and Kraig Grady against one another --

"Move over Kraig Grady"? Considering the guy left the list from the
constant attacks, it sure is easy to misunderstand your statements.
See below...

>that of Kraig Grady, who's created a tremendously rich and
> fantastical (and fictional) island, culture, and musical history,
also using
> Erv Wilson's scales and ideas. Many of Kraig Grady's compositional
> procedures, such as horagram rhythms and eikosany tetrad sequences,
are
> algorithmic in nature

While I'm sure Kraig would be surprised you view him that highly, I
imagine he would also argue that the precedent procedure in his music
is human activity, not a mechanical paradigm.

>and are made "artistic" by endowing them with a good story and
>lovely graphics.

I happen to think that the art comes from all of the above, but most
importantly by the human care and craft to weave it all together.
Otherwise, it's just bits.

> If Dave Keenan meant this to in any way poke fun of or put himself
above
> Kraig Grady, which I severly doubt, I would not be pleased with
that state
> of affairs, and would never seek to encourage it.

I actually hadn't thought of Kraig when I read the story.

> This is 100% true and if you have trouble believing this was my
intent, I
> must plead that it is the difficulty of communicating in this
medium -- if
> you knew me in person (like a small number of people on this list,
and of
> course many off it), you'd know that I'm not in the business of
breeding
> antagonism.

Then all I can say, Paul, and you are a sincere person, is that you
would do well to read your posts in a few different lights, and make
a more concerted effort to account for the very difficulties you
mention regarding this medium. For those of us with long histories on
this forum, who have seen numerous good people turn away from the
negative (even if not intended), dismissive (ditto) and abrupt
dialogue, I can only say that the tone of many of your posts does
*not* correspond to your description of yourself.

Maybe you will just reply "I disagree". But you might want to at
least consider the possibility.

Still wanting to be here,
Jon

Dear Dave,

--- In tuning@y..., "Dave Keenan" <D.KEENAN@U...> wrote:
> Dear Paul,
>
> Congratulations for remaining calm under fire. I had no intention
of
> comparison with Kraig Grady. In fact I couldn't work out what the
> correspondence was, until Jon's reply.

Yes, I guess some of us remember vividly the battle of wills between
Paul and Kraig. And I admire Paul in his coolness; as I've said to
him in private, one of the pre-eminant playrights of the latter 20th
century, David Mamet, has been known to become hot under the collar
in his dialogue. In my own performances, I am known for a very wide
dynamic range, from whispers to rafter-shaking fortississimos; I
suppose it is no surprise that my passion comes through in loud
colours sometimes.

> Dear Jon,
>
> I'm certain that you have misinterpreted Paul's post, as he claims.

As I've written to Paul, it is almost always the case that Paul isn't
incorrect but merely misinterpreted. And I've addressed that.
Although in light of the above mentioned history of the list, the
clarity issue is a shared one. As I've addressed.

> Didn't you just do what you were (very sensibly) warning us not to
do
> in an earlier post?

Get crazy? Yeah, I suppose so.

Best,
Jon

--- In tuning@y..., "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:
> I desire no ill will between Kraig and
Dave;
> indeed I'd forgotten that any once existed.

Err. I shouldn't let that go unchallenged. No such ill will ever
existed.

-- Dave Keenan