Korg OASYS card is microtuneable

Hello Everyone,

Just reading in Electonic Musician
OCT 2000 that the OASYS sound card
can be microtuned. Is there any one
using this card or can offere advice?

I am building a PC based midi studio
with sound cards. Had considered Sound
Blaster Live with the EgoSys Waveterminal 24/96
and Pulsar One with SRB. Good choices.
Can be microtuned?

I there a list of sound cards with Microtuningd
capabllity?

My extent of microtining will be on less than
12 tone scales.

Vas

vas@albrite.com (Vas Gardiakos) wrote, back on the 18th:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> Just reading in Electonic Musician
> OCT 2000 that the OASYS sound card
> can be microtuned. Is there any one
> using this card or can offere advice?

Looks like nobody is. I certainly didn't realise the card was retunable.
What exactly does the magazine say?

> I am building a PC based midi studio
> with sound cards. Had considered Sound
> Blaster Live with the EgoSys Waveterminal 24/96
> and Pulsar One with SRB. Good choices.
> Can be microtuned?

You could retune an SB Live by making your own SoundFonts with different
pitch specifications, like with any sampler. A few of us were looking at
software to automate this, but nothing came of it. I would still be
interested in a simple program that could read in a SoundFont file, and
spit it out in a different cent-step equal temperament, without the clever
stuff about re-defining key ranges. If somebody has a library for reading
the files, get in touch.

The other work-around for soundcards is to retune them using pitch bends.
I have some free software for doing this, see
<http://x31eq.com/software.htm>. There's also the Fractal Tune
Smithy that gets talked about here. It's shareware, but it seems he
doesn't mind people using it on indefinite evaluation. Anyway, pitch bend
tuning is good for casual use, but not for serious work. So an Oasys card
would be wasted if it doesn't have tuning tables.

The classic retunable sound card is the Turtle Beach Tropez Plus. But
this is really old now, and ISA only. I don't know of any newer ones.
Theoretically, any card should work with the right drivers. So you could
get hold of a Free Linux driver, become a C god, and re-write it to
support tuning tables. Unfortunately, it'd still only work in Linux.

The next nearest thing to a retunable soundcard is Kyma, which is even
more expensive than Oasys and doesn't do normal soundcard things. But is
very powerful. Otherwise, use soft synths. CSound and Reaktor are both
being used by list subscribers. VAZ+ claims to use tuning tables, but I
haven't seen them. And there's that sampler that I've forgotten the name
of. You could try a search on the archive.

> I there a list of sound cards with Microtuningd
> capabllity?

There's a list of synthesizers:

<http://home.att.net/~microtonal/>

It does include soundcards, but no recent ones last time I checked.

> My extent of microtining will be on less than
> 12 tone scales.

You think that now!

Graham

>
> Vas

[Graham Breed wrote:]
>Anyway, pitch bend tuning is good for casual use, but not for serious
>work.

Wah!! I use nothing but pitch bends, to stay compatible with General
MIDI, and I'm about as "serious" as someone who is completely willing
to distort the heck out of past masterpieces can be ;-> .

But you're right, of course. It would save SO many irritating tricks,
not to mention, dropping notes altogether when the channels are gone, if
there were some universal, compact access to tuning tables! (compactness
is essential for those of us who adjust the tuning frequently).

I wonder, is there some "standards committee" associated with MIDI,
etc., which might be approached with the goal of coming up with a
universal tuning standard for tuning sound cards and GM modules?

JdL

John deLaubenfels wrote:

> I wonder, is there some "standards committee" associated with MIDI,
> etc., which might be approached with the goal of coming up with a
> universal tuning standard for tuning sound cards and GM modules?

There's the MIDI Tuning Standard, which was drawn up around the same time
as GM, possibly at the same meetings. It includes SysEx messages for
sending a full-keyboard tuning table, or retuning one note from that
table in real time. It's used by the Tropez Plus and very little else. I
could probably send details, but you could probably find them from a web
search as well.

Graham

----- Original Message -----
From: <graham@microtonal.co.uk>
> The next nearest thing to a retunable soundcard is Kyma, which is even
> more expensive than Oasys and doesn't do normal soundcard things. But is
> very powerful. Otherwise, use soft synths. CSound and Reaktor are both
> being used by list subscribers. VAZ+ claims to use tuning tables, but I
> haven't seen them. And there's that sampler that I've forgotten the name
> of. You could try a search on the archive.

I recently found a utiltiy that is a sampler, a MIDI file renderer and a
software wavetable synthesizer which supports microtuning:
http://audiocompositor.home.att.net/

From the help file:
"Alternate Tunings
This window modifies Audio Compositor's global tuning from the default equal
temperament. Only 12-tone-per-octave scales are possible. Specify the
deviation in cents (I checked it: fractions of a cent are accepted too) from
equal temperament for each degree of the scale, and the root note which will
correspond to tone 1."

And the newest version:
"Other improvements:
When an alternate tuning is in use, the root key may now be selected by MIDI
key signature messages"

[I wrote:]
>>I wonder, is there some "standards committee" associated with MIDI,
>>etc., which might be approached with the goal of coming up with a
>>universal tuning standard for tuning sound cards and GM modules?

[Graham Breed wrote:]
>There's the MIDI Tuning Standard, which was drawn up around the same
>time as GM, possibly at the same meetings. It includes SysEx messages
>for sending a full-keyboard tuning table, or retuning one note from
>that table in real time. It's used by the Tropez Plus and very little
>else. I could probably send details, but you could probably find them
>from a web search as well.

Well I'll be danged - I'd never heard of this! I found some info at

http://home.att.net/~microtonal/MIDItuning.html

It's not completely clear to me how it works in specific detail (and
apparently it's not supported by my Yamaha DS-XG soundcard or Roland
VSC-88 softsynth, but it's at least a standard that sound card and synth
manufacturers COULD support if they wanted. Thanks for the info!

JdL

John deLaubenfels wrote:

> Well I'll be danged - I'd never heard of this! I found some info at
>
> http://home.att.net/~microtonal/MIDItuning.html
>
> It's not completely clear to me how it works in specific detail (and
> apparently it's not supported by my Yamaha DS-XG soundcard or Roland
> VSC-88 softsynth, but it's at least a standard that sound card and
synth
> manufacturers COULD support if they wanted. Thanks for the info!

No, it only seems to be a couple of Turtle Beach cards that use it.
From what I gathered on this list, there was an engineer at TB who was
keen on tunings, got the standard through and got it implemented (in
part). But then he left, and TB dropped microtonality, and nobody has
yet picked up the standard.

That's a good link, as it covers the low-level detail. You can work
it out, but here's some high-level guidance.

Bulk tuning dump request
------------------------

Not very glamorous, but it means you can find out what tuning tables a
synthesizer already has. Target device ID is a standard SysEx thing,
it defaults to the primary channel number for the device. The tuning
program number is so that the synthesizer can hold up to 128 tuning
tables at any one time.

Bulk tuning dump
----------------

This is the reply to the request, but also what you use to send a
tuning table. It contains a list of 128 frequencies mapped to notes,
so this is a full keyboard dump. Checksums are a pain if you're
constructing messages manually, but there is one. It does mean you
can request a re-send if the dump fails.

Realtime messages
-----------------

These are what you want! You can arbitrarily retune any notes from
any tables. So it isn't limited to static tuning tables. You could
load a different table to each channel, and use one of these messages
every time you want to change the pitch of a note. 12 note octave
tables would probably be implemented with these messages.

No checksum, how nice.

Program and bank changes
------------------------

These use RPNs. RPNs are a way of getting beyond the limit of 128
MIDI controllers. The hex messages are telling you how to set an RPN.
The standard controllers 00 and 03 are used to say which RPN you want
to change. The MSB is 00 in both cases, like all current RPNs (others
are for setting the pitch bend range and absolute pitch). The LSB is
03 for a program change and 04 for a bank change. Controller 6 is
used to set the value.

The program change is so that you can say "use this tuning table on
this channel". This is a good thing to be able to do. I think the
bank change is so that you can have more than 128 tuning tables
available, like GS, SoundCanvas and XG have more than 128 patches.

Note that 3 and 4 are small numbers. RPNs were only introduced by
GeneralMIDI. 0, 1 and 2 are for pitch bend range, coarse and fine
tuning. These are part of GM, and I think they have to be implemented
for a "GM" sticker to go on the box. The MTS obviously doesn't have
that status, but its RPNs were either assigned as part of GM, or were
the first to be added afterwards.

Frequency data format
---------------------

The "frequencies" are specified relative to an untuned note. This is
like saying "D5 +37 cents" except the offset is in 16384 steps to a
semitone instead of 100. And you can only specify sharp, but that's
no problem because flat is only sharp of the previous note.

The divisions are a way of doing binary fractions. Nothing clever
there. Note that this means 1/163.84 cent precision.

It's a shame nobody uses this, because it's comprehensive enough that
everybody could implement the part of it that their synthesizer
supports. And you could embed the SysEx messages instead of having to
embed pitch bends, and be careful about the channel assignments.

Still, such is life.

Graham

Hello Graham, Dimitri, John and all,

I certainly am learning a heck of a lot about
microtuning!

All samplers can be microtuned! Great to know that.

It is nice to know that the Korg OASYS has user
Tuning tables.

Unfortunately the polyphony is low and the card cannot
Be stacked.

My polyphony requirement is high due to my style of
Music and the 294 two dimensional keyboard I am building.

Each of the six segments will have 49 white keys, 25 front
And 24 back with no black Raised keys.

Because I want to have many octave in the 49 key range
I will limit my octaves from a low 5 keys to a high 10
Keys per octave.

So I need a way to re-map all the keys and also retune them.
I have the option of using only any seven of the 12 tone scale,
But would prefer to retune the key and experiment a little.

The only software sampler that offers over 100 not polyphony is
The GigaStudio 160 (max 160 note polyphony)

Does anyone have experience with the Giga Studio please step
Forward and introduce yourself. I am concerned how well it works
And if it has user tuning tables or one is obliged to tune
Each key separately.

Graham and Dimitri thanks for the advice to use Reaktor, Audio
Composer, Unity DS-1

I am hesitant to use a soft ware synthesis as the take up too much
Of the CPU resources. In the case of the GigaSampler and GigaStudio
The voices are streamed from the hard drive and do not drain the CPU.
Is this So? Does any one know?

Is Max and the weaker PC version Infinity (by soundQuest)
http://www.squest.com/ capable of initiating
A user tuning table? By the way I understand that soon that Max
Will soon be offered in the PC version.

I should add that I am a novice and rather play music than spend
My life programming tunings no matter how much fun it may be to some.

By the way is there a trick to printing these messages? My printer
Only prints the first page then am mostly blank second page.

Vas
Kalamata, Greece
vas@albrite.com

Vas Gardiakos wrote:

> Hello Graham, Dimitri, John and all,

Hello!

> I certainly am learning a heck of a lot about
> microtuning!
>
> All samplers can be microtuned! Great to know that.

A sampler's like a box of tape recorders. So if you load in 128 samples,
and link them to MIDI notes, it doesn't care what pitch they are.

You will run into problems with RAM. A lot of samplers, including
SoundFont compatible ones, let you do the same kind of trick without
needing multiple samples. But you're much better off with tuning tables.

If nothing else, GigaSampler should work fine with one sample per note.

> It is nice to know that the Korg OASYS has user
> Tuning tables.

After sending off my MIDI Tuning Standard post, I checked John Loffink's
microtonal synthesizer list. The Oasys is on there, and apparently has
been since December. The info agrees with what I found. However, that
Unity DS-1 isn't listed. If anybody's sure it supports tuning tables,
perhaps you could make John aware of this.

> Unfortunately the polyphony is low and the card cannot
> Be stacked.

Is it? I thought it was good for everything. You could still use it with
some other synth.

> My polyphony requirement is high due to my style of
> Music and the 294 two dimensional keyboard I am building.

Is there a reason why multitracking doesn't suit?

> Each of the six segments will have 49 white keys, 25 front
> And 24 back with no black Raised keys.

Ooh!

So why not throw in more rows, and make it a Bosanquet keyboard? If
you're building it from scratch, that is.

For that matter, have you seen
<http://x31eq.com/instrum.htm#keyboard>?

> Because I want to have many octave in the 49 key range
> I will limit my octaves from a low 5 keys to a high 10
> Keys per octave.

You mean a large number of octaves, so a small number of notes per octave?

> So I need a way to re-map all the keys and also retune them.
> I have the option of using only any seven of the 12 tone scale,
> But would prefer to retune the key and experiment a little.

The remapping would cause some problems, in that you'd need some proxy
software like MIDI Relay in between, which would cause problems. You may
be better off going for a full-keyboard table.

> The only software sampler that offers over 100 not polyphony is
> The GigaStudio 160 (max 160 note polyphony)

Do you have a link?

> Does anyone have experience with the Giga Studio please step
> Forward and introduce yourself. I am concerned how well it works
> And if it has user tuning tables or one is obliged to tune
> Each key separately.

Not me.

> Graham and Dimitri thanks for the advice to use Reaktor, Audio
> Composer, Unity DS-1
>
> I am hesitant to use a soft ware synthesis as the take up too much
> Of the CPU resources. In the case of the GigaSampler and GigaStudio
> The voices are streamed from the hard drive and do not drain the CPU.
> Is this So? Does any one know?

GigaSampler's expensive, there doesn't seem to be a free demo, and my
hardware isn't quite up to it. Check the website (I gave the link before)
and see what they say. It does list compatible sound cards, and gives
other hardware advice. I think the main hit is on the hard drive, but it
won't leave the CPU untouched. It certainly seems to be the ultimate low
CPU-hit soft sampler, but we don't know if it supports tuning tables.

I do know from experience that Kyma doesn't touch the CPU. It runs
entirely on its own hardware, only needing the PC for the graphical
front-end, to feed it samples, and for a sequencer. I expect the Oasys to
be similar, as it has its own DSPs. I'm sure you could run a sequencer
plus Kyma plus a soft sampler plus Oasys. That, plus a load of external
gear, would be the ideal. It depends on what you're prepared to spend on
it.

> Is Max and the weaker PC version Infinity (by soundQuest)
> http://www.squest.com/ capable of initiating
> A user tuning table? By the way I understand that soon that Max
> Will soon be offered in the PC version.

Don't know about the tuning tables. Have you checked John Loffink's list?
Apparently it is coming to the PC, and the free version Jmax is available
for Linux. I don't know much about it at all, but Kyma seems to be a
superior (and expensive) equivalent, which is definitely good for tuning.
<http://www.SymbolicSound.com> for that.

> I should add that I am a novice and rather play music than spend
> My life programming tunings no matter how much fun it may be to some.

That's why you need tuning tables!

> By the way is there a trick to printing these messages? My printer
> Only prints the first page then am mostly blank second page.

Printing depends on the printer. Using the preview window, you might be
able to choose a font that fits everything on one page.

Graham

Hello Graham and all concerned,

> If nothing else, GigaSampler should work fine with one sample per
note.
>

Let me ask, once the pitch is inserted for each sample
I assume that one can change the patch lets say from
a Yamaha piano to a Steinway without having to again
to insert the pitch for each sample?

Will defining each key sample create any time latency
or excessive CPU usage problems?

> > My polyphony requirement is high due to my style of
> > Music and the 294 two dimensional keyboard I am building.
>
> Is there a reason why multitracking doesn't suit?

I will also employ multitracking but I need live
high polyphony. My choices are limited

Just found out that Creamware PowerSampler can be staked two high
for a total of 64 note stereo polyphony. Unfortunately
it is not 128 note mono polyphony

> > Each of the six segments will have 49 white keys, 25 front
> > And 24 back with no black Raised keys.
>
> Ooh!
>
> So why not throw in more rows, and make it a Bosanquet keyboard?
If
> you're building it from scratch, that is.

What is a Bosanquet keyboard!!!
I want to check it out, however there is
a budget, space and design criteria to
consider.

> For that matter, have you seen
> <http://x31eq.com/instrum.htm#keyboard>?
>
>

I printed out and will study it.
Thanks!

> > So I need a way to re-map all the keys and also retune them.
> > I have the option of using only any seven of the 12 tone scale,
> > But would prefer to retune the key and experiment a little.
>
> The re-mapping would cause some problems, in that you'd need some
proxy
> software like MIDI Relay in between, which would cause problems.
You may
> be better off going for a full-keyboard table.

the re-mapping can be done sometimes in a drum editor.
Also Windows provides a midi mapper. If any one has
experience with using the Windows midi mapper or even Cubase
and Logic mapping utilities please let me know.

>
> > The only software sampler that offers over 100 not polyphony is
> > The GigaStudio 160 (max 160 note polyphony)
>
> Do you have a link?
>

see www.nemesysmusic.com
for both the GigaSampler and GigaStudio

> > Is Max and the weaker PC version Infinity (by soundQuest)
> > http://www.squest.com/ capable of initiating
> > A user tuning table? By the way I understand that soon that Max
> > Will soon be offered in the PC version.
>
> Don't know about the tuning tables. Have you checked John
Loffink's list?
> Apparently it is coming to the PC, and the free version Jmax is
available
> for Linux.

Please explain Loffink's list.

Is it possible the PC max can create
tuning tables?

Vas

Vas Gardiakos wrote:

> > If nothing else, GigaSampler should work fine with one sample per
> note.
> >
>
> Let me ask, once the pitch is inserted for each sample
> I assume that one can change the patch lets say from
> a Yamaha piano to a Steinway without having to again
> to insert the pitch for each sample?

Whatever work you have to do to retune the Yamaha, you have to do
again for the Steinway. And again if you want a different tuning for
either.

Unless you have tuning tables. Or you can work out some way of
renaming the samples ...

> Will defining each key sample create any time latency
> or excessive CPU usage problems?

It should improve it. You won't need to run a pitch shift algorithm.
I think that's how GigaSampler works already.

> > > My polyphony requirement is high due to my style of
> > > Music and the 294 two dimensional keyboard I am building.
> >
> > Is there a reason why multitracking doesn't suit?
>
> I will also employ multitracking but I need live
> high polyphony. My choices are limited
>
> Just found out that Creamware PowerSampler can be staked two high
> for a total of 64 note stereo polyphony. Unfortunately
> it is not 128 note mono polyphony

If polyphony's all you want, a Korg X5D has 64 note polyphony. As you
can assign channel and note ranges, you could chain as many as you
like. And there is an equivalent rack unit that saves you the cost of
the keyboard. There must be a lot of other external hardware that'll
do the same job.

> > > Each of the six segments will have 49 white keys, 25 front
> > > And 24 back with no black Raised keys.
> >
> > Ooh!
> >
> > So why not throw in more rows, and make it a Bosanquet keyboard?
> If
> > you're building it from scratch, that is.
>
> What is a Bosanquet keyboard!!!
> I want to check it out, however there is
> a budget, space and design criteria to
> consider.

The Bosanquet is a 19th century layout for a two dimensional keyboard.
This link might help.

<http://www.bikexprt.com/music/introduc.htm>

And the Wilson Archive will have something

<http://www.anaphoria.com/wilson.html>

It looks like

C# D# E# Fx Gx Ax
C D E F# G# A# B#
Db Eb F G A B
Fb Gb Ab Bb C
Cb

sort of thing.

> the re-mapping can be done sometimes in a drum editor.
> Also Windows provides a midi mapper. If any one has
> experience with using the Windows midi mapper or even Cubase
> and Logic mapping utilities please let me know.

I used the MIDI Mapper in Windows 3.1. It's really a legacy thing
now. It doesn't tend to work cleanly with sequencers.

> > > The only software sampler that offers over 100 not polyphony is
> > > The GigaStudio 160 (max 160 note polyphony)
> >
> > Do you have a link?
> >
>
> see www.nemesysmusic.com
> for both the GigaSampler and GigaStudio

Ah, so it seems to be a GigaSampler with some dedicated hardware.

> > > Is Max and the weaker PC version Infinity (by soundQuest)
> > > http://www.squest.com/ capable of initiating
> > > A user tuning table? By the way I understand that soon that Max
> > > Will soon be offered in the PC version.
> >
> > Don't know about the tuning tables. Have you checked John
> Loffink's list?
> > Apparently it is coming to the PC, and the free version Jmax is
> available
> > for Linux.
>
> Please explain Loffink's list.

It's at <http://home.att.net/~microtonal/>. All known synthesizers
with tuning tables are listed. I don't see Max.

Graham

Graham wrote:

> If polyphony's all you want, a Korg X5D has 64 note polyphony.

I prefer sample playback. I want to stay in the digital domain
inside my computer. Cards are less expensive and take up lees
space.

> The Bosanquet is a 19th century layout for a two dimensional
keyboard.

Interesting layout. Unfortunately I cannot
configure my keyboard in such a way.

> I used the MIDI Mapper in Windows 3.1. It's really a legacy thing
> now. It doesn't tend to work cleanly with sequencers.

I had read that the Win 98 SE has an imporved version
of the Midi Mapper. There is I beleive a midi mapping ultily
inside Cubase ond Logic. If not hopefully i can find
A VST plug-in to do it. I will be in deep trouble if I
cannot re-map my keys.

I wonder if MAX wether Mac or the New PC version is or will
be able create tuning tables. I emailed to the makers of Infinity (by
soundQuest) to ask about tuning table and am awiting a reply.

Vas