Paul analyzes swing...

Oh Paul, you wrote...

>This is related to a common way of playing straight but behind the beat in
>jazz that has often been described as playing exaclty 1/6 of a beat late,
>and makes the line swing even though it's played in perfectly even eighths.
>The idea is that, if the drummer were swinging in a 2:1 ratio, the short
>eighth would be at 2/3 rather than 1/2 way through the beat; 2/3-1/2=1/6, so
>a soloist who played straight eighth notes 1/6 of a beat behind would be in
>sync with the short eighth note, as Friberg found to be essential.

For crying out loud, quit tweezing everything do death!!!! Enjoy the magic of the swing without your calculator!!!!!!

I swear Paul, if you eventually have everything in this world analyzed I am going to drive off a cliff in a rented convertible, butt-naked...

Cheers,
Jon

(...who won't be needing a personality profile to explain the above...though I always feel when posting like this I should apologize to Margo...)

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch
http://www.corporeal.com/

[Paul E wrote:]
>>This is related to a common way of playing straight but behind the
>>beat in jazz that has often been described as playing exaclty 1/6 of a
>>beat late, and makes the line swing even though it's played in
>>perfectly even eighths. The idea is that, if the drummer were
>>swinging in a 2:1 ratio, the short eighth would be at 2/3 rather than
>>1/2 way through the beat; 2/3-1/2=1/6, so a soloist who played
>>straight eighth notes 1/6 of a beat behind would be in sync with the
>>short eighth note, as Friberg found to be essential.

[Jonathan Szanto wrote:]
>For crying out loud, quit tweezing everything do death!!!! Enjoy the
>magic of the swing without your calculator!!!!!!

I very much disagree. Of course we all enjoy the "magic" of music in
a deep, unintellectual way, but we also come to this list to understand
it better on another level, one which, perhaps, will help create better
"magic". I found Paul's post fascinating, exactly the kind of thing I
want to be on a list to hear about.

JdL

> [Paul E wrote:]
> >>This is related to a common way of playing straight but behind the
> >>beat in jazz that has often been described as playing exaclty 1/6 of a
> >>beat late, and makes the line swing even though it's played in
> >>perfectly even eighths. The idea is that, if the drummer were
> >>swinging in a 2:1 ratio, the short eighth would be at 2/3 rather than
> >>1/2 way through the beat; 2/3-1/2=1/6, so a soloist who played
> >>straight eighth notes 1/6 of a beat behind would be in sync with the
> >>short eighth note, as Friberg found to be essential.

Thanks! That means I can see how both lines can fit the same triplet
pattern. Now all I need is to set up a tempo map to shift it off the 2:1.

Is this 1/6-rule something instrumentalists are taught, or something that
came out of analysis? 1/6 of a beat seems like a small chunk of time to
be thinking about when you're playing. But it makes drawing onto a
sequencer a lot easier.

> [Jonathan Szanto wrote:]
> >For crying out loud, quit tweezing everything do death!!!! Enjoy the
> >magic of the swing without your calculator!!!!!!

John deLaubenfels wrote:

> I very much disagree. Of course we all enjoy the "magic" of music in
> a deep, unintellectual way, but we also come to this list to understand
> it better on another level, one which, perhaps, will help create better
> "magic". I found Paul's post fascinating, exactly the kind of thing I
> want to be on a list to hear about.

Right on! I think Jon's worried that we might be hitting on some trade
secrets ...

Graham

I wrote,

> >>This is related to a common way of playing straight but behind the
> >>beat in jazz that has often been described as playing exaclty 1/6 of a
> >>beat late, and makes the line swing even though it's played in
> >>perfectly even eighths. The idea is that, if the drummer were
> >>swinging in a 2:1 ratio, the short eighth would be at 2/3 rather than
> >>1/2 way through the beat; 2/3-1/2=1/6, so a soloist who played
> >>straight eighth notes 1/6 of a beat behind would be in sync with the
> >>short eighth note, as Friberg found to be essential.

Graham wrote,

>Thanks! That means I can see how both lines can fit the same triplet
>pattern. Now all I need is to set up a tempo map to shift it off the 2:1.

>Is this 1/6-rule something instrumentalists are taught, or something that
>came out of analysis? 1/6 of a beat seems like a small chunk of time to
>be thinking about when you're playing. But it makes drawing onto a
>sequencer a lot easier.

You certainly don't think about it (or much any theory) when you're
performing, it's more of a "feel" think. I have a book called _Bebop_ which
mentions some of the instrumentalists who used this technique. But I think
you missed my point, which is that Friberg's analysis shows that this
1/6-of-a-beat analysis is not quite correct. It assumes that the drummer has
a swing ratio of 2:1. However, the true swing ratio of the drummer will vary
according to tempo, style, and the particular drummer. For example, Tony
Williams playing in a slow tempo might use a swing ratio of almost 4:1. The
important point that Friberg brings up is twofold:

a) The soloist uses a lower swing ratio than the drummer
b) The soloist and the drummer synchronize on the _short_ eighth note

As a result, the soloist will be playing _behind_ the beat. 1/6-of-a-beat
behind happens when

a) The soloist is playing even eighths (swing ratio 1:1)
b) The drummer is playing with a swing ratio of 2:1

(a) would typically happen for phrases rather than entire songs, and (b)
would only be approached at certain select tempo/drummer combinations.
Anyway, this is not tuning, and I see Jon S.'s car careening off that cliff
before he gets a chance to convert my minidiscs to .mp3's!