Re: [tuning] Digest Number 1049

With regard to the tuning practices of classic-era Vienna, the relevant
theorist is Kirnberger, not Werckmeister.

In the 1780's, Haydn became aware of the writings of Kirnberger. This
happens to coincide with the increased number of tonic keys and greater
range of harmonic variety found in his music around that time (in contrast,
Mozart's music shows no increase in key range; he remained within the
meantone range*). The conjecture that Haydn started to use a temperament
allowing 24 keys is reasonable. The question is: to what extent did he hear
this temperament as making intonational distinctions among the keys? Did
he hear the temperament as, for all intents and purposes, a practical
implementation of equal temperament? Or, did he compose intending to project
intervallic distinctions among the keys?

Beethoven knew Kirnberger's writings well (pirated editions were available
in Vienna!); the range of keys allowed by the third Kirnberger tuning would
reasonably fit Beethoven's music. Kelletat, on the basis of writings by
T�rk, Daubes. Sulzer, Preindl and Seyfried, concludes that it was indeed
"the contemporary tuning of the Viennese classicists". Again, the questions
I raise above concerning Haydn should be asked, the writings of the time are
simply not clear about this question.

Daniel Wolf
Budapest

*e.g. G minor, the best meantone minor key, was Mozart's favorite. There is
some slight evidence, however, in his use of f minor (in KV280 and KV519)
that he might have used the Kirnbergian contrast between the pythagorean
minor tonic and subdominant with a nearly-just dominant.

> My thoughts were more that he was thinking in the concrete 1/6 comma
> meantone system or Werckmeister system that Ed Foote was talking
> about. That, is, provided he could still HEAR the system which,
> apparently he could... in the period we were discussing.
>
> After that time, most probably, he wrote with these same sounds in
> mind... Werckmeister or whatever, that he had internalized. Of
> course THAT part is totally speculative...
> ...
> > _________ _______ _____ _
> Joseph Pehrson
>

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Daniel Wolf" <djwolf1@m...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/17561

> With regard to the tuning practices of classic-era Vienna, the
relevant theorist is Kirnberger, not Werckmeister.
>
> In the 1780's, Haydn became aware of the writings of Kirnberger.
This happens to coincide with the increased number of tonic keys and
greater range of harmonic variety found in his music around that time
(in contrast, Mozart's music shows no increase in key range; he
remained within the meantone range*).

Thank you, Daniel Wolf, for your clarification of this. Haydn has
always been one of my favorite composers, and perhaps the harmonic
and modulatory range has something to do with it....

_________ ____ ____ ____
Joseph Pehrson