Reply To Mary: For Jacky Ligon (Prime Numbers)

Mary,

Hello! I noticed that you intended to post this message to the list,
but I don't think it actually made it there, so I thought I'd take
the liberty of posting it for you, so that I may thank you properly
in public as well.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary " <lucid@home.com>
To: <ligonj@northstate.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2001 2:48 PM
Subject: For Jacky Ligon (Prime Numbers)

> I must add that they have an overall sound that is eerily
> > beautiful and uniquely unlike any tunings I've ever explored
> > previously.
>
> I agree. I tried all three of your scales last night with Fractal
> Tune Smithy and found them quite spacious and magnificent. I
> definately plan on working them into some current compositions.

And I would like to express my humblest possibly gratitude to you,
for taking interest in the Prime Series Scales. They are lovely
scales, for which I can only take minimal credit in assembling the
wondrous things that the Great Mother provides. The impetus to go to
these high prime places, began for me with reading Partch, but has
been fueled by my awareness of other important theorists and
composers, such as Margo Schulter, Joe Monzo (the silent one) and
many, many others. I also derive boundless inspiration from a
compelling attribute shown by Paul Erlich; that of "always
questioning" even the things most sacred to others (one of which are
folks antique ideas about lower number ratios), in an attempt to find
the paths to truth - which ironically comes in many forms. As long as
I've got brothers and sisters of this ilk at my side, I do not walk
alone.

Years ago, we all might have been happy to hear "hi-fi" music at
22.5k, but we can definitely hear the difference between this and
44.1k - our standard today. None would imagine a return to past
formats giving less quality than we have today. And this is rising
all the time - now we seek resolutions of 96kz and above. In the
same way, tuning theory must continue toward the goals not yet
discovered, and we just happen to be the frontiersmen and women, out
here on the intonational front, making it happen. This is a noble
place to be - but it isn't easy.

>
> I'm a lurker on this list. I find mathematics beuatiful but prefer
> spending my time exploring the sonic spaces the numbers open. I
> discovered your Tibetan Tunings several months ago, and have found
> them useful as a combfilter applied to voice. I encourage you to
> continue exporing your own unique vision. In truth I find your
> method for generating the scales to make a lot of sense, but I have
> no desire to start any sort of polarization around "the best way".
I
> just wanted to publically thank you for a very nice gift of new
sonic
> space.
>
> MAry
>

I also find harmony, and an unbelievable expanse of common ground
with you, about the importance of "exploring the sonic spaces the
numbers open". Theory which is frozen before the point of musical
realization, provides only the initiated with some analytical
enjoyment, but when it is given living and breathing existence
in the form of actual music, then all may benefit from the final
product.

I'm more than a little delighted to hear that you found value in my
exercise of measuring the Gyaling. I love Tibetan music and culture,
and have had an intimate affinity for Buddhism since age 16.

Now this is very interesting that you have applied this to a comb-
filter! I love comb-filtering!!! I have DX and VST plugins that will
do this, but I'm not sure how I can apply a tuning to it. Would you
be so kind as to share how you do this?

I really appreciate your encouragement in the search of the Prime
Series, and other unique visions, as I'm sure many other JI/RI
composers and theorists will be. Many times it's difficult to gauge
reactions in the medium of text, but you have made it clear to me
that there are many list members out there - no matter to what degree
they lurk - who find resonance and usefulness in RI/JI concepts.

In upcoming weeks I will reveal some other very compelling attributes
of the Prime Series. I would like to wait for this to synchronize
with the return of Dave Keenan from vacation, since questions I have,
concern certain of his theoretical concepts. Should be fun and
interesting!

Thanks kindly to you Mary,

Jacky Ligon

--- In tuning@egroups.com, ligonj@n... wrote:
> Mary,
>
> Hello! I noticed that you intended to post this message to the
list,
> but I don't think it actually made it there, so I thought I'd take
> the liberty of posting it for you, so that I may thank you properly
> in public as well.
>
> Thank you - not sure why it didn't go to the group but will try
again>
>
Now this is very interesting that you have applied this to a comb-
> filter! I love comb-filtering!!! I have DX and VST plugins that
will
> do this, but I'm not sure how I can apply a tuning to it. Would you
> be so kind as to share how you do this?
>
>I have done this using the GRM 5 comb filter for TDM (mac) which
takes values in hz. I started using 480hz as 1/1 (which I chose
arbitrarily) and figured accordingly. I can run two of these filters
so I was able to use all 7 values. Here is the link for GRM plugins

http://www.cdemusic.org/special/grm/index.html

On the French page they say they make them form PC VST but don't see
that on the English distributors page. Worth a call though - they
are cool plugins indeed.

On the PC side you could do something similar with the Clavia Nord
and their multiwave oscillators. I imagine you could also probably
figure out how to do it in Reaktor.

I'm more than a little delighted to hear that you found value in my
> exercise of measuring the Gyaling. I love Tibetan music and
culture,
> and have had an intimate affinity for Buddhism since age 16.

Likewise, have been to Tibet and done many Sakya initiations. That is
why they caught my attention.

Mary

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Mary " <lucid@h...> wrote:
> >
> >I have done this using the GRM 5 comb filter for TDM (mac) which
> takes values in hz. I started using 480hz as 1/1 (which I chose
> arbitrarily) and figured accordingly. I can run two of these
filters
> so I was able to use all 7 values. Here is the link for GRM plugins
>
> http://www.cdemusic.org/special/grm/index.html
>
> On the French page they say they make them form PC VST but don't
see
> that on the English distributors page. Worth a call though - they
> are cool plugins indeed.

Mary,

Hello!

Guess what? I do have the VST GRM Tools, and they are wonderful. I
really like the Granular Synthesis plugin - Pitch Accumen - I think
it's called (I'm not at the studio now). The whole set is great
though. I most commonly will use these in WaveLab, using the Master
Section; I haven't tried them in Cubase yet, but I'll bet it's
fantastic to apply them in real time to the music.

Can you not "animate" and record movements and gestures with the TDM
plugin format? Seems this would be an exciting capability.

Thanks for the tip about using the tuning with the comb-filter. I'll
have to give this a try real soon.

> Likewise, have been to Tibet and done many Sakya initiations. That
> is why they caught my attention.
> Mary

Mary,

You spoke about using the comb-filtering on voice. Was this a singing
or spoken voice? I am most interested in the art of singing in
deliberate microtonal scales. If you have any MP3s or CDs out, I
would personally be very interested to hear some of your music. I'm
finding that microtonal singing can be one of the most lovely
realizations of the tunings.

Could you speak about your use of voice in your music? If you are
singing in deliberate microtonal scales, in what ways does the
computer, midi and hard-disk recording help you to realize your vocal
pieces? This is of huge interest to me.

Thanks again!

Jacky Ligon

> Hi Jackie

You spoke about using the comb-filtering on voice. Was this a singing
> or spoken voice? I am most interested in the art of singing in
> deliberate microtonal scales. If you have any MP3s or CDs out, I
> would personally be very interested to hear some of your music.

I do have a site with my music. The home page is
http://www.elucida.com where you can read about what I've been up to.
I too am finding that the voice is the best microtonal instrument I
possess(and it doesn't crash, its portable etc). You can hear some
of my most recent stuff here at
http://www.elucida.com/NewZealand.html esp the first two songs, Om
and Morphing Light. Also Expression here is nice
http://www.elucida.com/Journeying.html.

I've also been using Robert Walker's Fractal Tune Smithy in most of
my recent pieces. I love it because it makes it so easy to
experiment with different tunings. Often times I just leave it
running in the background. When I hear something I really like I
record it, and then wait for a piece to evolve where I can use it.
Journeying is pretty much straight from FTS.
One reason I got so excited about your scales was I could hear a lot
of new compositions coming forth from them. Its always exciting to
me to have something new to explore.

> Thanks again!
>
You too!

Mary

--- In tuning@y..., ligonj@n... wrote:
> In upcoming weeks I will reveal some other very compelling
attributes
> of the Prime Series. I would like to wait for this to synchronize
> with the return of Dave Keenan from vacation, since questions I
have,
> concern certain of his theoretical concepts. Should be fun and
> interesting!

Hi Jacky,

I'm honoured that you would wait. So hit us with it!

Paul Erlich's answer to your question about the term "classic mediant"
was spot on. Thanks Paul. To most mathematicians it's the only kind of
mediant there is. It was Margo's idea to use the adjective "classic"
to make it clear in our paper when we were _not_ talking about the
noble mediant, and I readily concurred.

Regards,
-- Dave Keenan

--- In tuning@y..., D.KEENAN@U... wrote:
>
> Hi Jacky,
>
> I'm honoured that you would wait. So hit us with it!

Dave,

Welcome back! And I hope you've had a great vacation. I was beginning
to think this was a metaphor for an extended list leave.

I will post my findings tonight, in hope that you may make some
comments.

>
> Paul Erlich's answer to your question about the term "classic
mediant"
> was spot on.

I have since explored this more throughly - thanks!

> To most mathematicians it's the only kind of
> mediant there is.

And an incredibly valuable tool for analysis it is.

Thanks,

Jacky Ligon

Hi Dave, we missed you while you were away . . . I hope you will have a chance to get
involved on some of the interesting topics that have come up in the past few weeks . . .
looking forward to your always penetrating analyses . . . -P

Thanks guys,

I missed you too. I really was on vacation (actually we say "on
holidays" here but I though I'd translate). 2 weeks camping on Lady
Musgrave Island, a coral cay on the south end of the Great Barrier
Reef. Yes I really am a biological organism, and have the tick bites
to prove it. :)

Paul Erlich wrote:
>I hope you will
have a chance to get
> involved on some of the interesting topics that have come up in the
past few weeks

I'm sorry I don't have time to go thru everything. I've read every
post that contains my name or a URL of mine. If there is anything
anyone particularly wants me to read or comment on, please give me its
URL or thread title.

Regards,
-- Dave Keenan