music concrete

You know, since my synth responds to "global" tuning alterations it
will play, as most do, the same MIDI data with a totally different
set of pitches. No surprise.

What IS surprising, though, is how LITTLE a change in basic pitch
material can "ruin" a given conception... at least from the
composer's (in this case, me) given intention.

Therefore, I would say that the GIVEN SET of pitches that a composer
works with, or thinks he is working with is what REALLY DETERMINES
the concept of a piece, at least with regard to tuning.

In other words, a composer is not really "compromising" an intention
by using a set of pitches, be it 1/4 comma meantone, 1/6 comma,
Werckmeister, whatever... of what is some abstract Just Intonation
concept that he cannot reach.

He is more just using the materials at a given time set out in front
of him. It seems historical research should just be driven to figure
out what these basic materials were!

Anything else is speculative, experimental work, or theorizing which
is separate from a concrete act of music making.

So we should imbed our historical feet in the concrete...

__________ ______ ______ _
Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <joseph@c...> wrote:
>
> What IS surprising, though, is how LITTLE a change in basic pitch
> material can "ruin" a given conception... at least from the
> composer's (in this case, me) given intention.
>
> Therefore, I would say that the GIVEN SET of pitches that a
composer
> works with, or thinks he is working with is what REALLY DETERMINES
> the concept of a piece, at least with regard to tuning.

Joseph,

This is *exactly* what I mean when I speak of "each tuning 'implies'
its own stylistic approach", and that "it is important to find the
innate pattern(s) of a tuning system", by actually playing it.

>
> In other words, a composer is not really "compromising" an
intention
> by using a set of pitches, be it 1/4 comma meantone, 1/6 comma,
> Werckmeister, whatever... of what is some abstract Just Intonation
> concept that he cannot reach.

Not sure I grasp your meaning here: "of what is some abstract Just
Intonation concept that he cannot reach". Please do explain your
terminating phrase.

>
> He is more just using the materials at a given time set out in
front
> of him. It seems historical research should just be driven to
figure
> out what these basic materials were!

In light of this quest, IMHO, no tuning system should be neglected.

>
> Anything else is speculative, experimental work, or theorizing
which
> is separate from a concrete act of music making.

And here I must agree wholeheartedly with you Joseph! If
experimental/theoretical work does not have a final stage of "music
making", it is mostly meaningless.
Mostly you can detect this kind of half baked approach, by the
complete lack of discussion of the tuning in a real musical context;
and usually hand in hand there is no discussion of the intended
timbres or styles. It's all "paper-work" baby! Know how to recognize
it.

>
> So we should imbed our historical feet in the concrete...

Preferably barefooted, so we will take root!

Thanks,

Jacky Ligon

--- In tuning@egroups.com, ligonj@n... wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/17541

> > In other words, a composer is not really "compromising" an
> intention
> > by using a set of pitches, be it 1/4 comma meantone, 1/6 comma,
> > Werckmeister, whatever... of what is some abstract Just
Intonation
> > concept that he cannot reach.
>
> Not sure I grasp your meaning here: "of what is some abstract Just
> Intonation concept that he cannot reach". Please do explain your
> terminating phrase.
>

Oh... this is not meant as anything offensive to the JI set (the JI
PITCH set or the JI Jet Setters...)

It just refers to Joe Monzo's thoughts that Beethoven was really
"going for" abstract sonorities that were Just Intonation. Maybe I
have Joe's intention wrong. Knowing Joe, he is sure to speak up. Hi
Joe!

My thoughts were more that he was thinking in the concrete 1/6 comma
meantone system or Werckmeister system that Ed Foote was talking
about. That, is, provided he could still HEAR the system which,
apparently he could... in the period we were discussing.

After that time, most probably, he wrote with these same sounds in
mind... Werckmeister or whatever, that he had internalized. Of
course THAT part is totally speculative...

Could somebody please remind me... what was that great film where
they show Beethoven at the end of conducting his 9th and the
concertmaster has to turn him around so that he can see that the
people were applauding wildly... since he didn't HEAR it... Was that
a Ken Russell film???

_________ _______ _____ _
Joseph Pehrson