Pianos in the mix?

Greetings,
In a post from Carl:
<< How do you even determine the fundamental of certain
>>timbres (as on many old pianos, where the determination of fundamental
>>is one of the most important things a piano tuner does to produce a
>>good tuning)?

Greetings,
The fundamental is of little consequence to the tuning of a piano,
(except at the extreme ends. In the low bass, the fundamental is often
lacking and must be extrapolated, and in the top treble, the fundamental is
usually all there is). The most important frequencies in piano tuning are
the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th partials of the notes. We use these as "vernier"
guides to setting the pitch.

>I have had *some,* and, clearly, the accuracy of counting beats really
>distinguishes a fine piano from an old "clunker."

Hmm, I am somewhat uncertain of the intended meaning of the above, but will
take a shot.
The beating we use to aurally tune pianos occurs at the 3:2 and 5:4
coincidentals,(fifths and thirds). In ET we also check the sixths, tenths,
and 17ths for progression. Accuracy depends on how easy it is to sort them
out. Some old clunkers have very clear partials and are easy to tune, and it
is not uncommon on the Bechsteins and Bosendorfers to find an amazing array
of partials competing for the ear's attention.

>>Right: on many pianos, the timbres themselves beat -- sometimes, even
a single string will beat!

The single string beating is usually due to poor termination at the
bridge. Called "false beats", these are usually found in the top two
octaves, and are commonly hidden by phase manipulation with the other two
strings.
Regards,
Ed Foote RPT
Nashville, Tn.

--- In tuning@egroups.com, a440a@a... wrote:
http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/16632

>
> >I have had *some,* and, clearly, the accuracy of counting beats
really distinguishes a fine piano from an old "clunker."
>
> Hmm, I am somewhat uncertain of the intended meaning of the
above,
but will take a shot.
> The beating we use to aurally tune pianos occurs at the 3:2
and
5:4 coincidentals,(fifths and thirds). In ET we also check the
sixths, tenths, and 17ths for progression. Accuracy depends on how
easy it is to sort them out. Some old clunkers have very clear
partials and are easy to tune, and it is not uncommon on the
Bechsteins and Bosendorfers to find an amazing array of partials
competing for the ear's attention.
>
For Ed Foote:

I was thinking more of cases where one couldn't hear ANY clear
beating
at all due, I think, to "noise" and from the shorter strings of
upright pianos. Is there a reason for that lack of "clarity" in an
old piano??

_______ ___ __ _
Joseph Pehrson