Belated "Verklarte Nacht" tunings

Monz e-mailed me recently to remind me that I hadn't yet posted a
retuning, as promised, of his sequence of Schoenberg's "Verklarte
Nacht". So, finally, I've done it. The sequence is the incomplete
version that Monz has has for some time on his web page

http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/schoenberg/Vienna1905.htm

Monz, pls be sure to let me know when you have your more recent version
posted!

To download, go to the egroups tuning file archive,

http://www.egroups.com/files/tuning/

Change into the JMids directory, and download the file:

verk-nac.zip

Included in the original 12-tET, and adaptive tunings in 5-limit,
7-limit, and 11/13-limit. This last uses a tuning file which has some
provision for both 11-limit and 13-limit chords, but I haven't done much
with it, and the results sound strange to me.

JdL

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "John A. deLaubenfels" <jdl@a...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/16622

> Monz e-mailed me recently to remind me that I hadn't yet posted a
> retuning, as promised, of his sequence of Schoenberg's "Verklarte
> Nacht". So, finally, I've done it.

This is a grand re-tuning triumph! Congrats on it. So far, this is
the most impressive and interesting re-tuning I have yet seen!

The adaptive JI seems so smooth that there is nothing anomalous about
it at all, especially in the 5 and 7 limit versions. They seem, on
immediate listen, to have more "resonance" than the 12-tET.

The 11/13 version seems a bit strange, as you mentioned... maybe
getting a bit far from the original conception.... (??)

Anyway, Joe Monzo, who happens to be a houseguest at the moment
(although a bit "under the weather"... hopefully improving soon)
will, I am certain, have other comments on this.

Thanks again for this triumphant retuning. Monz did mention, though,
that this exercise is particularly applicable to Verklarte Nacht
since, of course, the original instrumentation is unfretted strings!

________ ___ __ _ _
Joseph Pehrson

[Joseph Pehrson:]
>This is a grand re-tuning triumph! Congrats on it. So far, this is
>the most impressive and interesting re-tuning I have yet seen!

Wow, thanks much, Joe!!

>The adaptive JI seems so smooth that there is nothing anomalous about
>it at all, especially in the 5 and 7 limit versions. They seem, on
>immediate listen, to have more "resonance" than the 12-tET.

Yes, 12-tET versions now always sound one-dimensional to me, as if they
were in mono instead of stereo, compared to tuned versions (whatever the
sequence).

>The 11/13 version seems a bit strange, as you mentioned... maybe
>getting a bit far from the original conception.... (??)

I don't know what the problem is, other than a general guess that the
tuning file is out of balance; that is, it's pulling many chords to
a tuning that is in fact not ideal for them.

>Anyway, Joe Monzo, who happens to be a houseguest at the moment
>(although a bit "under the weather"... hopefully improving soon)
>will, I am certain, have other comments on this.

Hope you feel better, Monz!

>Thanks again for this triumphant retuning. Monz did mention, though,
>that this exercise is particularly applicable to Verklarte Nacht
>since, of course, the original instrumentation is unfretted strings!

I have been quite surprised, since first supporting sequences with
multiple voices, how forgiving instruments other than the piano are to
retuning! The piano is a crisp, stark instrument, yet the differences
still seem to go beyond what I would expect. David Finnamore's
suggestion may be correct, that our ears are already accustomed to
strings, winds, and horns having a somewhat variable pitch, while the
piano is expected to hold a constant tuning. Still, I'm not sure I
understand the whole picture.

Thanks again for your comments, Joe!

JdL