Chapman Stick: Microtonal Possibilities?

Paul Erlich, Seth Austen and other guitar playing folks,

I went today to the Chapman Stick site:

http://www.stick.com/tune.html

,to glean what I could about the various ways in which Sticks are
strung and tuned. Indeed an enlightening experience.

I'm thinking that if one could get Emmett Chapman to fret one of
these 12 strings with a microtonal fretting, you'd have one
incredible instrument!!!

Tapping with the right hand, whilst voice leading with the left, is a
hugely important technique for me with regard to guitar playing. By
the looks of the stick design I would be right at home with this
technique. It certainly will make your mind race to conceptualize the
possibilities of a microtonally fretted Stick. Perhaps an email
message to the Stick Company is in order.

Anyway, there are some good ideas about open tuning and stringing to
extract from what they do, which could be applied to the guitar. Let
me know what you think - it's very intriguing.

Thanks,

Jacky Ligon

One thing I failed to mention, is that it appears the Chapman Stick
comes standard fitted with a GK2 Divided Pickup system from Roland,
but me thinks this would become fairly worthless in correlating with
what would be happening with the fretboard being fretted with a
microtonal placement. As one can see, they really make this
instrument cater to the 12tET target market.

Jacky

--- In tuning@egroups.com, ligonj@n... wrote:
> Paul Erlich, Seth Austen and other guitar playing folks,
>
> I went today to the Chapman Stick site:
>
> http://www.stick.com/tune.html
>
> ,to glean what I could about the various ways in which Sticks are
> strung and tuned. Indeed an enlightening experience.
>
> I'm thinking that if one could get Emmett Chapman to fret one of
> these 12 strings with a microtonal fretting, you'd have one
> incredible instrument!!!
>
> Tapping with the right hand, whilst voice leading with the left, is
a
> hugely important technique for me with regard to guitar playing. By
> the looks of the stick design I would be right at home with this
> technique. It certainly will make your mind race to conceptualize
the
> possibilities of a microtonally fretted Stick. Perhaps an email
> message to the Stick Company is in order.
>
> Anyway, there are some good ideas about open tuning and stringing
to
> extract from what they do, which could be applied to the guitar.
Let
> me know what you think - it's very intriguing.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jacky Ligon

Jacky wrote:

> I went today to the Chapman Stick site:
>
> http://www.stick.com/tune.html
>
> ,to glean what I could about the various ways in which Sticks are
> strung and tuned. Indeed an enlightening experience.
>
> I'm thinking that if one could get Emmett Chapman to fret one of
> these 12 strings with a microtonal fretting, you'd have one
> incredible instrument!!!
>
> Tapping with the right hand, whilst voice leading with the left, is a
> hugely important technique for me with regard to guitar playing. By
> the looks of the stick design I would be right at home with this
> technique. It certainly will make your mind race to conceptualize the
> possibilities of a microtonally fretted Stick. Perhaps an email
> message to the Stick Company is in order.
>
> Anyway, there are some good ideas about open tuning and stringing to
> extract from what they do, which could be applied to the guitar. Let
> me know what you think - it's very intriguing.

Try it! I emailed them a couple years ago about strings - while they
couldn't help me (strings too short...), Yuta Chapman was helpful and
sympathetic.

Casually, I think the Stick would solve some of the issues Canright
brings up, since it has a longer scale than guitars (867mm vs. like
610mm) and its idiosyncracies might rule out things like barre chords.

While on the subject, has anyone heard of a "hamatar"? I had one to fool
around with once, basically two electric guitars nut to nut with long
shared strings; the idea was to play both tangent style so that both
hands could be independent and uncrowded (tho' usually I removed the
capo nut and sounded the wrong lengths). Ouf! I need replacement strings
for that same durned project.

Clark

Jacky Ligon wrote,

<< As one can see, they really make this instrument cater to the 12tET
target market. >>

What other market is there! None, save a handful of malcontents,
that'd be us, whom barely constitute a seconds thought when it comes
to anything resembling a market.

The day that a Tom Morello or a Bill Frisell ditch their twelve-tone
equal temperament instruments for good, well then we might get a whiff
of serious interest from some manufacturer with the all important
qualifier -- real distribution...

If blatantly, explicitly twelve-tone equal temperament instruments are
hanging on the walls of all the music stores kids (and the curious)
are gonna grab 'em and check them out. It can be no other way.

But none of this is going to happen until someone very visible walks
the nonentity through the proverbial door so to speak.

To my mind I'm amazed each and every year this doesn't happen...
stunned, dumbfounded even.

With the mass advent of hip-hop and all the various popular offshoots
of dance musics, sonically interesting and challenging sounds became
the norm. And many guitar based bands followed suit. All it would take
is one very visible rock-rap group to don the fretless and say, "whoa,
check this wacked shit out!"... one forward looking and very visible
jazz guitarist such as a Frisell or a Metheny to completely get behind
a microtonal guitar, sound, and conceptual or ideological concept, and
abracadabra, let it begin!

Personally I think it's got to be the kids saying, "yo!, check this
wackiness out", that are going to spark "the revolution", and not the
presently addressed connoisseurs of all matters microtonal. Because as
far as the market is concerned, the almighty corpulent monopolist that
twelve-tone equal temperament surely is has got to be dented and
reasonably challenged as a moneymaker if it -- the "xenharmonic
million man/mother march" -- is ever gonna have a snowball's chance in
hell of ever happening.

Once the instruments and the role models and the "thing" is in
place -- in the stores and on the records and in the videos and
straight into the great collective consumer/societal consciousness,
who knows what might happen... but *something* will happen! Right?

Well at least that's what I -- much like the UFO enthusiasts and the
apocalyptic doomsayers -- go on year-to-year saying: "any day now",
"any day now"...

--Dan Stearns

Jacky,

The GK2 pickup will work with microtonal tunings if your synth. has the capability. For ex, I
have a Roland JV-1080 and I put a fretless guitar though it with the GK pickup and I can play
any microtonal interval. You have to set the bend range from -12 to +12. That even ables you
to play bends on normal 12 et guitars. You also have to set the interface (Roland GI-10) to
the same bend range. The equipment might have changed a bit since I got mine, but the concept
is the same.

Also, I have a Chapman Stick. I've been thinking about refretting it. Let me know what you
find out. I'll keep you posted on my end.

Al Giusto

ligonj@northstate.net wrote:

> One thing I failed to mention, is that it appears the Chapman Stick
> comes standard fitted with a GK2 Divided Pickup system from Roland,
> but me thinks this would become fairly worthless in correlating with
> what would be happening with the fretboard being fretted with a
> microtonal placement. As one can see, they really make this
> instrument cater to the 12tET target market.
>
> Jacky
>
> --- In tuning@egroups.com, ligonj@n... wrote:
> > Paul Erlich, Seth Austen and other guitar playing folks,
> >
> > I went today to the Chapman Stick site:
> >
> > http://www.stick.com/tune.html
> >
> > ,to glean what I could about the various ways in which Sticks are
> > strung and tuned. Indeed an enlightening experience.
> >
> > I'm thinking that if one could get Emmett Chapman to fret one of
> > these 12 strings with a microtonal fretting, you'd have one
> > incredible instrument!!!
> >
> > Tapping with the right hand, whilst voice leading with the left, is
> a
> > hugely important technique for me with regard to guitar playing. By
> > the looks of the stick design I would be right at home with this
> > technique. It certainly will make your mind race to conceptualize
> the
> > possibilities of a microtonally fretted Stick. Perhaps an email
> > message to the Stick Company is in order.
> >
> > Anyway, there are some good ideas about open tuning and stringing
> to
> > extract from what they do, which could be applied to the guitar.
> Let
> > me know what you think - it's very intriguing.
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Jacky Ligon
>
>
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--- In tuning@egroups.com, "D.Stearns" <STEARNS@C...> wrote:
> Jacky Ligon wrote,
>
> << As one can see, they really make this instrument cater to the
12tET
> target market. >>
>
> What other market is there! None, save a handful of malcontents,
> that'd be us, whom barely constitute a seconds thought when it comes
> to anything resembling a market.

It is a too sad reality!!

>
> The day that a Tom Morello or a Bill Frisell ditch their twelve-tone
> equal temperament instruments for good, well then we might get a
whiff
> of serious interest from some manufacturer with the all important
> qualifier -- real distribution...
>
> But none of this is going to happen until someone very visible walks
> the nonentity through the proverbial door so to speak.
>
> To my mind I'm amazed each and every year this doesn't happen...
> stunned, dumbfounded even.

This is also remarkable to me as well. Even the master 12 tET players
that we know have explored microtonality - like Steve Vai - aren't
doing anything of significance to draw an audience or musical
instrument manufacturers to the cause. It was mentioned by Neil
recently, that it was sad that McLaughlin has walked the 12 tET path
even with his lifetime involvement with Indian music - now this *IS*
indeed strange! Him of all people, to still embrace 12 tET this way
will remain paradoxical to me for all my days.

>
> With the mass advent of hip-hop and all the various popular
offshoots
> of dance musics, sonically interesting and challenging sounds became
> the norm. And many guitar based bands followed suit. All it would
take
> is one very visible rock-rap group to don the fretless and
say, "whoa,
> check this wacked shit out!"... one forward looking and very visible
> jazz guitarist such as a Frisell or a Metheny to completely get
behind
> a microtonal guitar, sound, and conceptual or ideological concept,
and
> abracadabra, let it begin!
>
> Personally I think it's got to be the kids saying, "yo!, check this
> wackiness out", that are going to spark "the revolution", and not
the
> presently addressed connoisseurs of all matters microtonal. Because
as
> far as the market is concerned, the almighty corpulent monopolist
that
> twelve-tone equal temperament surely is has got to be dented and
> reasonably challenged as a moneymaker if it -- the "xenharmonic
> million man/mother march" -- is ever gonna have a snowball's chance
in
> hell of ever happening.

Back in the 1980s I used to read with revulsion, about Chick Corea
stating basically how he felt he must "write down" to get a broader
audience to appreciate what he was doing, and the results of his
philosophy stand as some examples of the weakest and most sterile
Jazz music I've ever had the opportunity to waste my time on. Yes,
the stuff with Frank Gambale - and who cares!!!

But on a microtonal note, I think there can be a compromise that can
get the sounds of microtonality in front of young folks, without
making the kind of lifeless music that Corea made - his mission was
not of a microtonal nature either (and being strapped in 12 tET was
his bain as well). The possibilities of writing music that would have
an appeal to the younger audience, are there to be exploited by the
knowing microtonalist. Why can't we have more "pop" music with
microtonality involved in its structure, that involves the kind of
groove sensibility, which is so popular today (minimalism from the
classical music world has bled into popular electronica of today)? I
see nothing at all wrong with crossing into these styles, as I know
many here do. Whether or not one's music can have this kind of appeal
has much to do with the style in which microtonal music is rendered.
I'm all for *ANY STYLES* of microtonal music.

Before I got my first PC I used to produce lots of very complex
orchestrally oriented music with my stand alone sequencer. I would
form "time chords" by juxtaposing many levels of tempi. This music
was largely like the way I remember reading Elliot Carter describe
his experience of examining Stravinsky's scores. They are like
scrapbooks with torn out pages, pasted back together in a collage, to
create a "fast cut" style (apparently "The Rite of Spring" had this
appearance). This kind of thing is fun and challenging to compose and
listen to, but the reality is - no one cares! But conversely if I
pick up the guitar, and play a solo with a fuzzed out distortion
sound, in front of a 20 year old, then we are friends for life! As
above, it's all about the delivery - like it or leave it. The
alternative is that microtonality will remain an "underground"
activity as it is today. Perhaps a related question is, how may we
make microtonality "sexy"? May we adorn our Lattice with scantily
clad models to draw attention to our numbers about consonance and
complexity? May we run ads showing guys "picking up chicks" with
microtones? I can see it now! "Hey look Girls! It's Mr. Microtone! -
I'll be back to pick you up later baby!"

May the sexiest microtonalists among us please step forward -
especially if you look good in high-heels!!! }: )

>
> Once the instruments and the role models and the "thing" is in
> place -- in the stores and on the records and in the videos and
> straight into the great collective consumer/societal consciousness,
> who knows what might happen... but *something* will happen! Right?

I will begin my ritual prayers right away Dan.

>
> Well at least that's what I -- much like the UFO enthusiasts and the
> apocalyptic doomsayers -- go on year-to-year saying: "any day now",
> "any day now"...

I'm with you. And we all know it depends on taking this to the music.
It's not going to happen any other way.

Jacky Ligon

--- In tuning@egroups.com, ligonj@n... wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/16628

This music was largely like the way I remember reading Elliot Carter
describe
> his experience of examining Stravinsky's scores. They are like
> scrapbooks with torn out pages, pasted back together in a collage,
to create a "fast cut" style (apparently "The Rite of Spring" had
this
> appearance). This kind of thing is fun and challenging to compose
and <cut>

Of course, Carter was most probably criticizing Stravinsky here, as
he did Charles Ives and many others....

________ ___ __ _
Joseph Pehrson