synth mods

I'll bet this is not a new topic, but I'm curious...I was just
reading a review of a new Roland guitar synth, and was wondering how
hard it would be for some whiz kid to modify the part that decides how
many tones per octave is used, and what they are, pitch wise? I mean,
why not 31 or 19 tones? What's the big hang? It would be great to have
access to all the sounds/effects those little hummers have...any
comments? Thanks...Hstick
PS...and, on an electronic wind instrument...why couldn't someone do
away with the keys, and instead make a ribbon of sorts, so a sax player
can get any pitch? I'm sure there's a good reason, but what is it...and,
who can come up with a solution...?

>I'll bet this is not a new topic, but I'm curious...I was just
>reading a review of a new Roland guitar synth, and was wondering how
>hard it would be for some whiz kid to modify the part that decides how
>many tones per octave is used, and what they are, pitch wise? I mean,
>why not 31 or 19 tones? What's the big hang? It would be great to have
>access to all the sounds/effects those little hummers have...any
>comments? Thanks...Hstick

As far as i know,all guitar synthesizers can play any pitch within a reasonable range-if the guitar is correctly fretted.As for models,i would specifically recommend the Roland VG-88,which uses a kind of aural restructuring of the actual sound from the strings rather than just sampling the pitch.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-
MATS �LJARE
http://www.angelfire.com/mo/oljare
_____________________________________________________________________________________
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Mats �ljare wrote:

> As far as i know,all guitar synthesizers can play any pitch within a
> reasonable range-if the guitar is correctly fretted.As for models,i would
> specifically recommend the Roland VG-88,which uses a kind of aural
> restructuring of the actual sound from the strings rather than just sampling
> the pitch.

I second that recommendation. Having recorded a lot of electric guitars for commercial projects, including real and synthesized, I can say the the VG-88 will fool all but the
very most discerning of ears, and sometimes even theirs (ours :-). Since it invariably tracks pitchbends properly on 12 EDO fretted guitars, I don't see why it wouldn't be
usable with a 19, 22, or 31 EDO fretted guitar, or even a fretless. Hey, there's an idea.

--
David J. Finnamore
Nashville, TN, USA
http://personal.bna.bellsouth.net/bna/d/f/dfin/index.html
--

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "David J. Finnamore" <daeron@b...> wrote:
> Mats Öljare wrote:
>
>
> > As far as i know,all guitar synthesizers can play any pitch
within a
> > reasonable range-if the guitar is correctly fretted.As for
models,i would
> > specifically recommend the Roland VG-88,which uses a kind of aural
> > restructuring of the actual sound from the strings rather than
just sampling
> > the pitch.
>
> I second that recommendation. Having recorded a lot of electric
guitars for commercial projects, including real and synthesized, I
can say the the VG-88 will fool all but the
> very most discerning of ears, and sometimes even theirs (ours :-).
Since it invariably tracks pitchbends properly on 12 EDO fretted
guitars, I don't see why it wouldn't be
> usable with a 19, 22, or 31 EDO fretted guitar, or even a
fretless. Hey, there's an idea.

I inquired on the vg-8 list a while back about the alternate tuning
features (in which six independent pitch-shifters can pitch-shift the
guitar into different open-string tunings). The good news for
microtonalists is that the VG-8 and VG-88 has a resolution of 1 cent.

Also, none of the VG-8s are synthesizers. They are actually effects
processors that can process each guitar string individually.

Paolo

Hello Paolo, Mats and David,

I'm glad to see this has came up - this is something I'd been wanting
to see if any tuning list folks had any experience with.

The big question for me, is can the VG-88 digitally move the fret
positions? If it can do this it would be way cool! Seems to me I read
it could, but perhaps I'm confusing it with the open tuning feature
that Paolo speaks of.

I wanted to go play one at a music store locally, but have been
unable to find one in stock.

Thanks,

Jacky Ligon

--- In tuning@egroups.com, phv40@h... wrote:
> --- In tuning@egroups.com, "David J. Finnamore" <daeron@b...> wrote:
> > Mats Öljare wrote:
> >
> >
> > > As far as i know,all guitar synthesizers can play any pitch
> within a
> > > reasonable range-if the guitar is correctly fretted.As for
> models,i would
> > > specifically recommend the Roland VG-88,which uses a kind of
aural
> > > restructuring of the actual sound from the strings rather than
> just sampling
> > > the pitch.
> >
> > I second that recommendation. Having recorded a lot of electric
> guitars for commercial projects, including real and synthesized, I
> can say the the VG-88 will fool all but the
> > very most discerning of ears, and sometimes even theirs (ours :-
).
> Since it invariably tracks pitchbends properly on 12 EDO fretted
> guitars, I don't see why it wouldn't be
> > usable with a 19, 22, or 31 EDO fretted guitar, or even a
> fretless. Hey, there's an idea.
>
> I inquired on the vg-8 list a while back about the alternate tuning
> features (in which six independent pitch-shifters can pitch-shift
the
> guitar into different open-string tunings). The good news for
> microtonalists is that the VG-8 and VG-88 has a resolution of 1
cent.
>
> Also, none of the VG-8s are synthesizers. They are actually
effects
> processors that can process each guitar string individually.
>
> Paolo

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Neil Haverstick <STICK@U...> wrote:
> I'll bet this is not a new topic, but I'm curious...I was just
> reading a review of a new Roland guitar synth, and was wondering how
> hard it would be for some whiz kid to modify the part that decides
how
> many tones per octave is used, and what they are, pitch wise? I
mean,
> why not 31 or 19 tones? What's the big hang? It would be great to
have
> access to all the sounds/effects those little hummers have...any
> comments? Thanks...Hstick

I asked a related question on the midiguitar egroup. What I have
been able to gather is that guitar synths interpret your currently
played note as the nearest note value (out of 12t-ET) plus pitch-bend
(could be a positive or negative value from 0 to whatever). So for
the sound that is internal to the guitar synth (that is, _not_ an
external MIDI module), what you play on a microtonal guitar will
likely be heard as something with pitch-bend added. For internal
sounds, maybe you want to go with those that you still like even with
pitch bend. I would guess what would need to be done is for someone
to implement tuning tables on the synth engine of the guitar synth
itself... but only if you _don't_ want to use an external MIDI module.

External MIDI modules are a different matter. They are listening for
MIDI values such as note number, pitch bend, etc. rather than exact
frequency (there was much initial confusion on this point on the
midiguitar list). At this end of your MIDI chain is where your
tuning tables and such come into play - where incoming MIDI note
numbers are mapped to your desired tuned pitches.

So at present, as a MIDI guitarist, if your controlling instrument is
already hard-fretted with a microtonal scale (like your 19-tone
guitar), Roland guitar synths will work, but you will hear your
sounds as being "pitch-bent". If this is not an issue, then you are
pretty much set - you don't need another sound module. If it _is_ an
issue, then you have to get another module - preferably one with
tuning tables.

> PS...and, on an electronic wind instrument...why couldn't someone do
> away with the keys, and instead make a ribbon of sorts, so a sax
player
> can get any pitch? I'm sure there's a good reason, but what is
it...and,
> who can come up with a solution...?

The Kurweil ExpressionMate closely matches your description. It is a
ribbon controller that has a good selection of MIDI processing
features. The control box has a breath controller input. It can be
played as its own instrument with the pitch being selected on the
ribbon and the BC handling volume, for example.

Kurzweil's page:

http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/expmate.html

Harmony Central reviews page:

http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Kurzweil/ExpressionMate-
01.html

Paolo

--- In tuning@egroups.com, ligonj@n... wrote:
> The big question for me, is can the VG-88 digitally move the fret
> positions? If it can do this it would be way cool! Seems to me I
read
> it could, but perhaps I'm confusing it with the open tuning feature
> that Paolo speaks of.

No, it can't. Think of it as six effects processors in one box, with
one processor per string. That's what it really is.

As far as I am aware, it doesn't have the intelligent pitch
shifting/pitch correction features like the Eventide box used by Trey
Gunn to play in alternately tuned scales with a vocalist buddy. In
one of his online diaries at http://www.treygunn.com, he says he got
the Eventide to apply pitch correction to each note coming out of his
Warr Guitar. I don't recall him mentioning playing chords, though.

Paolo

phv40@hotmail.com wrote:

> Also, none of the VG-8s are synthesizers. They are actually effects
> processors that can process each guitar string individually.

Physical Modeling IS a type of synthesis. For
example, the MS2000 is described by Korg as
a analog modeling synthesizer. Think of items
like the Roland VS series and the Line 6 amps
as physical modeling filters.

I used to think the Roland Handsonic was a physical
modeling synth but we couldn't find anyplace in the
Roland literature that actually used the term. It
must use pcm/samples, but they are damm good ones!

db

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

phv40@hotmail.com wrote:

> As far as I am aware, it doesn't have the intelligent pitch
> shifting/pitch correction features like the Eventide box used by Trey
> Gunn to play in alternately tuned scales with a vocalist buddy. In
> one of his online diaries at http://www.treygunn.com, he says he got
> the Eventide to apply pitch correction to each note coming out of his
> Warr Guitar. I don't recall him mentioning playing chords, though.

The "vocalist buddy" was David Hykes. He's quite well known as a
Harmonic
Overtone singer. Besides having quite a few cds out, he usually makes
at least one trip to the USA once a year (escaped NYC to France a while
back)
for concerts and workshops. I'd describe him as amazing.

http://www.harmonicworld.com/

The band Gunn was in was the west coast version of Hykes Harmonic
Antenna.

db

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

--- In tuning@egroups.com, David Beardsley <xouoxno@v...> wrote:
>
> The "vocalist buddy" was David Hykes. He's quite well known as a
> Harmonic
> Overtone singer.
>
> The band Gunn was in was the west coast version of Hykes Harmonic
> Antenna.
>

David Hykes music is fantastic and extremely inspiring work! I love
the Harmonic Choir music I've heard, but am totally unaware of this
music. Sounds very interesting. The electronics mentioned here is a
side of his music that I wouldn't have guessed about, since it would
seem that his focus seems to be predominantly about acoustic music.

Jacky Ligon

P.S. David, Haven't you did some collaborative work or study with
David Hykes? Does he have interest in microtonality beyond his work
with vocal harmonics?

My vocal teacher (now deceased) did several workshops with Mr. Hykes.
He taught me how to do both Mongolian and Tibetan overtoning.
I am always available for instruction/lessons on overtoning
cheers
Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://indians.australians.com/meherbaba/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: <ligonj@northstate.net>
To: <tuning@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 8:09 PM
Subject: [tuning] David Hykes (was) Re: synth mods

> --- In tuning@egroups.com, David Beardsley <xouoxno@v...> wrote:
> >
> > The "vocalist buddy" was David Hykes. He's quite well known as a
> > Harmonic
> > Overtone singer.
> >
> > The band Gunn was in was the west coast version of Hykes Harmonic
> > Antenna.
> >
>
> David Hykes music is fantastic and extremely inspiring work! I love
> the Harmonic Choir music I've heard, but am totally unaware of this
> music. Sounds very interesting. The electronics mentioned here is a
> side of his music that I wouldn't have guessed about, since it would
> seem that his focus seems to be predominantly about acoustic music.
>
> Jacky Ligon
>
> P.S. David, Haven't you did some collaborative work or study with
> David Hykes? Does he have interest in microtonality beyond his work
> with vocal harmonics?
>
>
>
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ligonj@northstate.net wrote:

> P.S. David, Haven't you did some collaborative work or study with
> David Hykes?

I took a workshop 4 or 5 years ago.

> Does he have interest in microtonality beyond his work
> with vocal harmonics?

I don't think so. After those west coast shows, he played
NYC and used a 12tet guitarist.

db

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm