Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re: Decany in VRML

Hi everyone,

I've just done a template for a decany in VRML _without_ the sound clips.

http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/tune_smithy/decany/decany_template.wrl

Diads are all cyan, and smaller than the other spheres, and on mid points of edges.

Triads are red, yellow, magenta or blue, and are coloured according to geometric
position relative to centre of model, to make it easier to see where they are.

So, the blue spheres are at centres of faces of central tetrahedron,
magenta spheres are at centres of the solid faces that join central
tetrahedron to the outer octahedron, yellow spheres are at centres of
the faces that trisect the vacant faces of outer octahedron, and red spheres
are above the centres of the faces of the outer octahedron.

If anyone wants to have a go at making the midi clips for it, go ahead. It will
prob. be a little while before I get round to programming FTS to make them
all automatically - i.e. after release of FTS 1.09.

To find out how to do it read:

http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/tune_smithy/decany/decany_template_expo.txt

I estimate it would take getting on for three times as long to make them by hand
and check them as it did for the hexany.

I hope to make them all with a single click, and for any decany, and if the method
works, would prob. will be fairly easy to program it.

More later on this,...

Robert

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

I've just noticed, the vertices at centres of faces of Paul Erlich's dekany.mpg are actually outside centres of the
vacant faces.

So following this ex., I've moved them out to be at the same distance from centre as the others (I think his may be
slightly closer)

Also moved the red ones in to the centres of faces of octahedron, as that can now be done without confusion.

http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/tune_smithy/decany/decany_template2.wrl

Not sure if either of these are actually 3D views on the truncated simplex, but there prob. is some flexibility.

It's like picture of cube as two squares one within the other joined to each other by lines. You see a cube like that if
you view it through one of its faces, close up. The relative size of the two squares then depends on your distance from
the face.

In the same way, I expect the relative sizes of central tetrahedron and outer octahedron can be varied by moving closer
or further away from the octahedral face (this is a 3D view of the 4D truncated simplex through one of its 3D octahedral
faces, looking towards the opposite tetrahedral face, which is the one you see in the centre of 3D figure in this
perspective view).

But I haven't done the actual 4D projection to check the range of values one can have for the sizes of octahedron and
tetrahedron for these perspective views.

Robert

🔗Joseph Pehrson <pehrson@pubmedia.com>

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

🔗Paul H. Erlich <PERLICH@ACADIAN-ASSET.COM>

Hi Robert!

Nice to see those VRMLs. I'm so glad we're able to have translucent faces,
and liked how you turned the outer tetrahedra inside-out. I'd be happy to
make .wav files for you if you wish.

I'm assuming that you're intending to use this:

http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/tune_smithy/decany/decany_template.wrl (where
I think the translucent faces are a bit _too_ transparent).

for the 3)5 dekany, and this:

>http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/tune_smithy/decany/decany_template_xx_0p3>_fi
lled_tetrahedra.wrl (where I think the outer tetrahedra are _too_ flat)

for the 2)5 dekany. Yes? Then the filled-triangles in each one represent
otonal triads, while the non-filled in triangles (20 in the first, 10 in the
second) represent the utonal tetrads. In other words each dekany has 30
triads that one might want to listen to. The filled in tetrahedra represent
otonal tetrads -- the 3)5 dekany has none, while the 2)5 dekany has 5.
Meanwhile, the non-filled-in tetrahedra represent the utonal tetrads -- the
3)5 dekany has 5, while the 3)5 dekany has none. In other words, each dekany
has 5 tetrads that one might want to listen to. So, do you want me to make
70 .wav files for you?

🔗Joseph Pehrson <pehrson@pubmedia.com>

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

Hi Paul,

>Nice to see those VRMLs. I'm so glad we're able to have translucent faces,
>and liked how you turned the outer tetrahedra inside-out. I'd be happy to
>make .wav files for you if you wish.

Great!

Yes, the translucent faces look nice and help to see what it is all like. However,
not to raise any hopes in case you have it in mind, one can't click on spheres
through them as the click will count as being on the translucent face itself.

It will be a little while before I do any clips as I'm still finishing FTS 1.09 and the help for it.

I plan some subroutines to make them all automatically, as I said, which will go along with
with next section on chord recognition via the SCALA list, and playing of them, but want to do the
1.09 release before getting involved in all that.

>I'm assuming that you're intending to use this:

>http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/tune_smithy/decany/decany_template.wrl (where
>I think the translucent faces are a bit _too_ transparent).

Ah, the transparency varies a fair amount from one VRML browser to another, and also dep. on
how one sets the various display options. Same also for the apparent flatness of 3D shapes -
the shape stays the same, but the way the colour varies according to angle of view is rather
variable.

Transparency is easy to change, just change the number for transparency, & a matter of finding which of them
to change (it's the one with transparency 0.3, just before the only occurrence of ThisPolysFaces in the
file if you want to experiment changing it - you can also recognise it by the colour diffuseColor 0 0 1
which means blue in RGB convention, range 0 to 1 for each colour component)

>for the 3)5 dekany, and this:

>http://members.nbci.com/_XMCM/tune_smithy/decany/decany_template_xx_0p3_filled_tetrahedra.wrl
> (where I think the outer tetrahedra are _too_ flat)

Could make it a bit deeper, but I expect it will be nice to be able to click on the spheres for the triads and diads
that make the tetrad from both sides of it. One could try varying x a bit and see what works best, could also vary
the radius of the spheres a bit if nec.

However there doesn't seem to be much room for manouvre if one wants the spheres for the diads to be
about this size, since they only just show above the surface of the tetrahedra as it is. I think it helps
in terms of clarity to keep them smaller than the other spheres. So question is if it would work to make
all the spheres a bit larger and the tetrahedra deeper. I could put variables for the sphere radii into
the template, so that one can experiment.

>for the 2)5 dekany. Yes? Then the filled-triangles in each one represent
>otonal triads, while the non-filled in triangles (20 in the first, 10 in the
>second) represent the utonal tetrads. In other words each dekany has 30
>triads that one might want to listen to. The filled in tetrahedra represent
>otonal tetrads -- the 3)5 dekany has none, while the 2)5 dekany has 5.
>Meanwhile, the non-filled-in tetrahedra represent the utonal tetrads -- the
>3)5 dekany has 5, while the 3)5 dekany has none. In other words, each dekany
>has 5 tetrads that one might want to listen to. So, do you want me to make
>70 .wav files for you?

Well, so it works well. Not surprising perhaps as both are copies of yours, I'm not yet
well up on the theory behind it all, and will prob. find out more as result of doing this.

Yes, do make them!

N.B. I make it 10 vertices + 30 diads + 30 triads + 5 tetrads = 75 clips each.

150 clips if you wanted to make both.

Ah, I see, you are leaving out the diads and the individual notes.

That's okay, one could comment out the spheres for those for now. Or indeed leave
the diads in and just explain that they don't yet do anything if you click on them.

A few details will prob. still need to be sorted out for the VRML.

Wasn't sure what to do about placement of the ratios for the inward facing
vertices of the tetrahedra in the one for the 2)5 decany. (You will see some of
them poking through the faces)

Thought perhaps one could place them outside, above the red spheres,
if not too confusing.

This shows the idea:
file:///F|/www2/interactive_models_with_titles/Decany/decany_template_xx_0p3_filled_tetrahedra~2.wrl
(done them also in black so one can easily tell which is which)

(n.b. what does 2)5 mean, or is it complicated to explain?)

For the 3)5, it's a matter of deciding what to click on for the utonal tetrad.

I think one needs to mull it over.

Here it is, with the faces a bit less transparent, slightly darker in colour, and with the numbers moved
out so that you can see them easily.

file:///F|/www2/interactive_models_with_titles/Decany/decany_template~2.wrl

Prob. easiest would be if you edited these, replacing the r0, r1, ... with whatever
you want to put at the vertices, and the z0, z1 etc by suitable file
mnemonics, as explained in the expo, and make the wave clips, plus use
the obvious names for the tetrads. (i.e. z0_z1_z2_z6.mid etc with zi replaced
by the corr. mnemonic - I do them all with the zi in order of increasing i)

We can then think over how to do the tetrads in the VRML, and I can update the VRML for
that when you've done the clips, and take it from there...

Thanks.

I too am really looking forward to hearing it when it is all done!

Robert

🔗Paul Erlich <PERLICH@ACADIAN-ASSET.COM>

🔗Robert Walker <robert_walker@rcwalker.freeserve.co.uk>

Hi Paul

>Simple. The hexany is 2)4, products of two factors at a time out of a set of four, right? So the
>two dekanies are 2)5 and 3)5 -- get it?

Ah, easy.

>I'll look at the rest tomorrow.

I've just done a little console app. to automate replacing of the ratios and formulae in xx.

You can now make the dekany from the template with a single command:
srvrml xx r0 r1 r2 r3 r4 r5 r6 r7 r8 r9

where the xx is replaced by the value for xx, e.g. 0.3 for the one I did.

The ri are replaced by whatever text you want to see at the respective vertices.

I've also added a comment near the head of the file that lists all the midi files to make,
- easier to read than having to scroll through all the AudioClip nodes for them

I've also updated the template a bit for the 2)5 decany, and included the touch sensors
for the tetrads (haven't yet done it for the other one)

Shall I comment out all the diad spheres in the vrml template?

(it is easy to do, just comment out all the lines from the #diads comment to the #triads comment,
but I have a VRML editor that comments out any number of lines with a single command,
so I could do that if you want it that way = 420 lines to comment out + you also need
to comment out the relevant Sound... and ROUTE... lines at the end, 30 of each)

Depends on whether you want to see the diad spheres in the output / make the clips for them / both.

I'll do the upload and post the urls when I hear from you about that.

Plan is to update the 3)5 decany template later today with the tetrads, though haven't yet quite
figured out how to do them yet.

Robert