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hilarious ri-post

πŸ”—Joseph Pehrson <pehrson@pubmedia.com>

10/23/2000 6:35:08 AM

This is hilarious:

Killing-my-software.mp3

at

http://www.egroups.com/files/tuning/perlich/

At least a few people object to Bill Gates eating everything...

________ ___ __ _
JP

πŸ”—John A. deLaubenfels <jdl@adaptune.com>

10/23/2000 10:08:35 AM

[Joseph Pehrson:]
>This is hilarious:
>Killing-my-software.mp3
>at
>http://www.egroups.com/files/tuning/perlich/

Paul, is that you singing? Not bad! I could easily visualize this
song, maybe extended with one or two more verses and a B section,
being hugely popular and making substantial bux. Parody is an
honorable art form - consider the idea, please!

[Joe:]
>At least a few people object to Bill Gates eating everything...

Hey! That's not fair! I have at least ONE file, dating from 1984, that
Bill hasn't gotten around to eating yet.

JdL

πŸ”—Paul Erlich <PERLICH@ACADIAN-ASSET.COM>

10/23/2000 10:26:01 AM

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "John A. deLaubenfels" <jdl@a...> wrote:

> Paul, is that you singing?

Gee -- I'd hate to ponder the anatomical alterations that would make
_that_ possible! No -- a friend sent me that file.

πŸ”—John A. deLaubenfels <jdl@adaptune.com>

10/23/2000 12:03:59 PM

[I wrote:]
>>Paul, is that you singing?

[Paul E:]
>Gee -- I'd hate to ponder the anatomical alterations that would make
>_that_ possible! No -- a friend sent me that file.

Dang! I totally missed it if that's a woman singing! Blame it on
limitations in .mp3, or on my ears if you like. In any case, please
pass on my encouragement to the author(s).

JdL

πŸ”—Monz <MONZ@JUNO.COM>

10/23/2000 10:34:47 PM

Sorry about the length of thisΒ… it's a quoting of the review
by
Richard Chrisman of Eric Regener's book, in its entirety. It was
originally published in _Journal of Music Theory_, volume 19.1
[Spring 1975], p. 161-171.

I had a question about the equations, but *after* going thru
the trouble of typing all of this, I found out that there was
an error in the original article, and that's why the math was
unclear to me. So even tho I understand it now, I'd still
like feedback from others on Regener's ideas.

Many subscribers here will probably find this of great interest.
I've only seen one copy of Regener's book, on a shelf at the
University of Pennsylvania library, covered with dust. As far as
I know, the book is out-of-print and appears to be rather hard to
obtain at this date.

In this reproduction of Chrisman's review, I indicate subscript
numbers by an underscore; for example, "F sub 0" appears as F_0.
The notes given in the `References' section at the end are
part
of Chrisman's review. Any comments I make in the body of the text
are enclosed in square brackets.

-monz

---------------------------------------------------------

Regener, Eric. 1973.
_Pitch notation and Equal Temperament: A Formal Study_
University of California Press
Berkeley, Los Angeles, and London.

Review by Richard Chrisman

This book provides a mathematical representation of conventional
pitch notation and of conditions for correspondence between
pitch notation and what Mr. Regener specifies as "regular", or
notationally consistent, intonation systems. Although Mr. Regener
hopes that his formalism will lead toward the development of a
system for the objective analysis of music, the more immediate
goal of establishing a mathematical model useful for expressing
any notated interval in relation to its associated sound (given
in terms of the frequency ratio between the two pitches forming
the interval) better represents the nature and value of this study.

In the mathematical approach live both the main advantages and
primary disadvantages of the book. On the one hand, the formalism
ensures a logical, systematic, and generalized description of pitch
notation and of particular intonation systems. On the other hand,
facility in reading a book of this sort depends to a great degree
on one's facility in reading mathematical notation and in grasping
the necessary mathematical concepts, even though every concept is
defined and important ideas illustrated by examples, tables, and
graphs. For a mathematician, the mathematics would be elementary
and probably uninteresting. For a musician interested in Mr.
Regener's ideas on notation theory, the mathematics might seem
overly complicated, actually detracting from the understanding
of the material.

Following introductory comments, certain mathematical background,
and a discussion of the author's long-range purposes for the book
(to be discussed below), the main body of the formalism begins in
Chapter 6, entitled "Notated Pitches". Here Regener establishes
a means for representing any notated pitch, apart from its rhythmic
value, in terms of two numbers. The first number, called the
"diatone" of a note, corresponds to the staff position of the note,
specifically its distance in diatonic steps from a reference pitch:
the F below middle C. Letting the diatone of this reference
pitch "F_0" be equal to 0, the diatone of G_0 (or Gb, G#, Gbb,
G##, etc. in the same register) a step above F_0 equals 1; A_0
two steps up equals 2; B_0 equals 3, and so on. Below F_0, the
same principle applies, thought the numbers are negative: the
diatone, for example, of E_-1 a step below equals -1; D_-1 two
steps below equals -2. The subscript for each letter refers to
the note's register in relation to F_0.

The second number identifying a pitch, called the "quint" of a
note, measures the distance from F (again equal to 0) in a sequency
of perfect fifths that Regener refers to as the "quint group":

... Ebb Bbb Fb Cb Gb Db Ab Eb Bb F C G D A E B F# C# G# D# A# E# ...
... -9 -8 -7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ...

For a given pitch, the quint thus fills in the information lacking
from the diatone, that is, the accidental given to a particular
letter-name: for example, here a pitch with a number between 0 and
6 has no accidental, those with numbers between 7 and 13 have one
sharp, those with numbers between -7 and 1 have one flat.

Defined as the "notated pitch" of a note, the two numbers form a
pair (d,q) where "d" equals the diatone of the note and "q" equals
its quint. *1 The "notated pitch" of middle C would be read as
(4,1): the C without an accidental that is 4 steps above F_0. The
C# a chromatic semitone above middle C is represented as (4,8):
the C whose staff position lies four steps (diatones) above F_0
but whose form with one sharp is a distance of 8 away from F in
the quint group. The note Cb in the same register has as its
identification number (4,-6); the Cb an octave higher would be
(11,-6). *2

The pair (d,q) thus uniquely defines every possible notated pitch
(even such unlikely notes as Abbb or F###, since the diatone and
quint series can be extended infinitely). Regener then shows how
these notated pitches can be plotted on a graph, with the horizontal
axis corresponding to the quint group and the vertical axis
representing the diatonic distances. (Example 1 - taken from
Fig. 3, p. 41, in the book - shows the notated pitches about the
two axes and on an enlarged treble and bass staff.) The point of
origin of the two axes if F_0, with coordinates (0,0). Any note
with coordinates (d,q) has its own point on the graph, such as
Ab_0 = (2, -3) which lies up 2 from F_0 on the vertical (diatone)
axis and -3 (3 points to the left from F_0) on the horizontal
(quint) axis.

[NOTE FROM MONZO: I have only reproduced part of this diagram in
ASCII format; it is greatly reduced and omits the clefs, but does
at least show the single-flats and the naturals for the octave
above and below the central F_0.]

[Chrisman's "Example 1"]

----- Fb_1 -------------------- F_1 --------------------- F#_1 7
Ebb_0 | Eb_0 | E_0 | 6
| Db_0 | D_0 | 5
| Cb_0 | C_0 | 4
Bbb_0| Bb_0| B_0| 3
| Ab_0 | A_0 | 2
| Gb_0 | G_0 | 1
Fb_0 -------------------- F_0 --------------------- F#_0 0
Ebb_-1 | Eb_-1 | E_-1 | -1
| Db_-1 | D_-1 | -2
| Cb_-1 | C_-1 | -3
Bbb_-1| Bb_-1| B_-1| -4
| Ab_-1 | A_-1 | -5
| Gb_-1 | G_-1 | -6
---- Fb_-1 ------------------- F_-1 ------------------- F#_-1 -7

-9 -8 -7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Vertical axis: diatone _d_, horizontal axis: quint _q_.
Subscript: register-number as defined.

Each notated pitch, therefore, is actually represented as an
interval from the basepoint F_0, since both the diatone and the
quint define each point in terms of distances from F_0 = (0,0). *3
This set of points, or intervals, and the particular rules for
associating form what Regener calls an "interval space",
which he
labels _I_ [NOTE FROM MONZO: This appears in Chrisman's text as a
capital I with a wavy line under it.] (the wavy underscore
symbolizing boldface type; I'll just refer to this as
"I").
The chapter on interval space, Chapter 8, is the most important
of the entire book, as everything from that point on depends on
concepts and mathematical expressions defined here. Unfortunately,
I also found this chapter the most difficult to understand. For
these reasons, I will go into more detail, while trying to simplify
and to clarify the essential ideas presented.

In Chapter 8, Regener establishes the means by which every notated
pitch with coordinates (d,q) in the interval space "I" can be
reinterpreted as a point with new coordinates (a,b) in relation to
a new set of vertical and horizontal axes, thus forming another
interval space. Regener shows how one of these new interval spaces
can be generated by two intervals that act as the "minimal
basis"
of that space, just as a diatone and a quint act as basic units of
measure and of vertical and horizontal direction Β– "unit
vectors" Β–
in "I". Regener uses the intervals (3,-1) (the upward perfect
fourth Β– F_0 to Bb_0) and (1,2) (the upward major second Β–
F_0 to
G_0) to illustrate one possible interval space which he calls
"K_0".
*4

The creation of "K_0" from the original space "I" can
be visualized
by representing with solid lines the two generating intervals (3,-1)
and (1,2). (See Example 2a, which is simply a portion of the figure
from Example 1.)

[Chrisman's "Example 2a"; the reader must bear with the
limitations
of ASCII and imagine that the two diagonal lines are dotted lines
and the tilted rectangle in the center has heavy solid lines on
the left and bottom edges, and light solid lines on the right and
top edges.]

d
|
` |5
` |
` _|4'` C_0 (4,1)
` _.-` | `
Bb_0\ |3 `
(3,-1)\ | ` ,
\ |2 ` ,
\ | ` ,
\ |1 _.-` G_0 (1,2)
F_0 (0,0) \| _.-`
-----------\-------------------- q
-2 -1 , 0|` 1 2 3 4
, -1| `
, | `
-2| `
| `
-3| `

When extended in either direction these lines form the new axes
(dotted lines in Ex 2a) of the interval space "K_0". Each of
the
two generating intervals also defines the unit of distance of each
point along its respective axis, whereas in "I" a unit of
distance
measured one diatone away from F_0 and one quint away from F_0.
In the new space, therefore, with F_0 again being the point of
origin (0,0), the Bb and the G each represent point "1" along
its
respective axis; point "2" would then be Eb along the F-Bb
axis
and A along the F-G axis. Thus the transformation from one space
to another, though using the same points, effects a change in
coordinates from (d,q) in "I" to (a,b) in "K_0".
Example 2b
illustrates this and also shows how all the points from "I"
can
be realigned by placing the new axes vertically and horizontally
and by equalizing the distances between the point along each axis.
Under realignment the parallelogram that connects four points in
"I" (drawn in Ex. 2a) becomes a square in "K_0" (Ex.
2b) yet still
connects the same four points. Like a huge lattice, all the points
in the old space are similarly affected.

[Chrisman's "Example 2b"; here, I use `x' to
represent the heavy
solid line.]

a
|
|2
|
|
Bb_0 (1,0)x1 . . .C_0 (1,1)
x .
x .
F_0 (0,0)x .G_0 (0,1)
--------------xxxxxxxx----------- b
-2 -1 |0 1 2
|
|-1
|
|
|-2
|

For any two intervals that generate a new interval space from
"I",
the following transformation equations relate the coordinates of
a point (d,q) in "I", whose unit vectors are (1,0) and (0,1),
with the new coordinates (a,b) in the generated space, whose
intervals i and j Β– the new unit vectors Β– serve as a minimal
basis for the new space:

d(1,0) + q(0,1) = ai + bj

In other words, the coordinates times the unit vectors in the old
space equals the new coordinates times the new unit vectors.

Interval space "K_0" was used only to illustrate the
transformation
from "I" to some other space. Regener now constructs another
space "K_1" based on the intervals (7,0) (the upward perfect
8ve)
and (4,1) (the upward perfect fifth), an interval space much more
useful and historically consistent in terms of intonation theory,
and one which also simplifies the mathematics. *5 The
transformation equations between coordinates in the two spaces
now become:

d(1,0) + q(0,1) = a(7,0) + b(4,1) or
(d,q) = (7a+4b,b) and
d = 7a + 4b
q = b

Solving for a and b (Equation 8.21, p. 82):

a = (d Β– 4q)/7 (= k_0)
b = q (= q_0)

[NOTE FROM MONZO: this equation contained an error which was
corrected in the following issue of the Journal.]

In this new space "K_1", when the axes are realigned (as was
"K_0"
in Ex.2b), each successive point (a) along the vertical axis now
corresponds to an interval of an octave, while each successive
point (b) along the horizontal axis still represents the quint.
For an interval in "K_1" between two notated pitches (each
with
its own two coordinates), Regener therefore calls the distance
between the two respective points along the vertical axis the
"octave-span" of the interval (cf. "diatonic-span",
reference 3),
thus generalizing coordinate "a" above; he renames this
"k_0".
Similarly, the distance in quints between the respective "b"
coordinates of the two notes forming the interval is called
(as in "I") the "quint-span", labeled "q_0".

Regener is now able to define a correspondence between notation
and sound Β– i.e., between any notated interval and a particular
frequency-ratio. Specifically, he is most concerned with what
he defines as "regular intonation systems", symbolized by the
function lf (log frequency-ratio), for which two conditions must
be satisfied: the perfect octave (7,0) is defined to have a
frequency ratio of 2:1; and the frequency ratio of two notated
intervals combined equals the product of their two individual
frequency ratios. This second condition implies that exactly
one frequency ratio will always correspond to any given interval
of the same name, thus ensuring that intonation is always
consistent with the notation. (It is possible, of course, that
more than one interval will have the same frequency ratio, as
in twelve-tone equal temperament.)

Regener then proves that in a regular intonation system all the
frequency ratios will be completely determined by assigning a
particular frequency ratio to just one notated interval other
than the perfect prime or its octave equivalents. It is here
(pp. 89-94) that the final link between notated pitches and
frequency ratios is made: the log frequency-ratio of any interval
i = (d,q) can be given in terms of the transformation coordinates
(k_0,q_0), which as shown above can be derived from (d,q), and in
terms of the log frequency-ratio of the perfect fifth. *6 The log
frequency-ratio of the perfect fifth thus acts as the "determining
constant" for the entire regular intonation system: its value
determines the value of every other interval (except the perfect
octave, which is already defined).

With the essential relationships between notation and frequency
ratios established, the second half of the book deals with
applications of the now generalized description. First Regener
distinguishes between "open" and "closed" regular
intonation
systems, borrowing Murray Barbour's term "closed" in the
sense
of a "regular temperament in which the initial note is eventually
reached again", as in equal temperament *7; by analogy its
counterpart is called an "open" system, as in Pythagorean
tuning.
Although Regener briefly discusses open systems, he is mainly
concerned with closed regular systems, for which he proves that
a system is closed if and only if it has a "non-trivial"
enharmonic
interval: an interval (from F_0) other than the perfect prime,
whose frequency-ratio is 1:1 Β– an interval that closes the system
in the sense of which Barbour speaks. Mathematically, an
intonation system containing enharmonic intervals results in a
simplified form of the determining constant, one equal to k_0/q_0
(from the transformation coordinates) where q_0 corresponds to the
number of tones which divide the octave and where k_0 gives the
number of tones comprised by the perfect fifth in the system.
In twelve-tone equal temperament, for example, the determining
constant would be 7/12: twelve divisions to the octave with the
perfect fifth equal to seven of those divisions. It is at this
point that the mathematical approach really proves worthwhile,
resulting in a very simple, useful, and descriptive relationship.

Regener compares regular systems with "just" intonation Β–
systems whose frequency ratios are rational numbers, i.e.,
expressible as a quotient of integers (p. 117). Here he also
presents criteria for "preferred" frequency ratios, criteria
which historically have sometimes governed decisions of choosing
certain frequency ratios over others. *8 When correlated with
criteria for notationally consistent closed regular systems,
these criteria for preferred ratios result in a number of systems
whose determining constant lie within the range 11/19 (nineteen
divisions of the octave) and 7/12. In these later chapters
familiar items keep emerging, though approached from a new
perspective.

Following a chapter that relates the conclusions reached thus far
to a generalization of pitch notation, Regener returns to his hope
that his system for representing notated pitches and intervals can
be used as a means for analyzing tonal music in a completely
objective manner. Considering a musical score as a "more
reliable"
representation of the music than any performance of that music
(a case could be made, I think, that supports the opposite
viewpoint), he speculates that it might be possible to find and
to codify the "internal syntactic arrangement of the score" by
treating it as a "detached, abstract symbolic entity, irrespective
of its possible realizations in sound and their conceivable effects
on potential auditors" (pp. 2-3). *9 I sense that underlying
Regener's thinking is the notion that for tonal music there is
some "natural law" that governs the patterns of symbols in a
musical score, irrespective of composer or of the evolution
of the composer's style. Although I am skeptical of such an
assumption, especially when one is concerned with the leading
tonal composers of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, I
am curious about what it might lead to, more in terms of process
rather than of end results. Very significant work has been
produced by persons seeking natural laws, even though these were
not always, if at all, found.

Also, I am not convinced that Regener's notational system would
be necessary for an objective study, since there already exists
a completely objective means for representing the musical score
Β– the Ford-Columbia Music Representation for computer analysis.
I assume that Regener is also implying the application of
mathematics, beyond the notation itself, which might very well
prove to be important, as it has in other fields (quantum
mechanics, for example).

In general, I think that this book offers most to intonation
theorists. Unfortunately, the formal approach might discourage
interested readers from proceeding beyond the second chapter,
which is why I tried to "translate" some of the problematic
areas.
Unquestionably, mathematics and mathematical notation are useful
and often necessary, to a certain degree, for music theory, as in
the case of this book. But the apparatus itself can completely
negate whatever ideas one hopes to convey. I think that a
preferable approach would be to present, in the final discussion,
a minimum of mathematics. If proofs are essential, these can be
placed in appendices or, even more simply, can be referred to in
other sources, since nearly all of the math used for music can be
found in basic undergraduate texts. A formal approach may very
well lead to important conclusions, but there is usually no need
to present these conclusions in a form that may limit the
readership to what I suspect is a very small number.

REFERENCES

*1 Although I found that I would usually just refer to the charts
of these numbers that are provided in the book (Figures 1 and 2,
pp. 36-37), I also tried to find a simple way of remembering these
numbers, at least within the range of 0 to 6: F always equals 0;
the diatone of a note corresponds to the scale degrees in a G major
scale Β– G=1, A=2, Β…, E=6; the quints of notes F,G,A,B are in
the
even sequence 0,2,4,6 respectively and of notes C,D,E are odd,
1,3,5 respectively.

*2 Both the diatone and quint numbers are set up so that notes of
the same letter-name have numbers that are related by multiples of
7 Β– that is, are equivalent mod7. In both cases if a number is
greater than 6 or less than 0, the number 7 can be subtracted or
added respectively one or more times until the number lies within
the range of 0 to 6. For the diatones, the numbers of times that
7 is subtracted or added tells the number of octaves the note lies
from the register above or below F_0, respectively. The number of
times 7 can be added to or subtracted from the quint number outside
the 0 to 6 range tells the number of sharps or flats, respectively,
that the letter-name carries. These relationships essentially
form the basis for the chapter on Modular Arithmetic (Chapter 5)
as well as in the chapter on Notated Pitches.

*3 Intervals between other notes besides those formed with F_0
can be ascertained by finding the distance between the diatones
of the two notes (the "diatonic span") and between the quints
of
the two notes (the "quint-span"); the resultant two numbers
give
the diatone and quint of the interval formed. Interval addition
works in the same way, though here the d and q coordinates of the
resultant interval equals respectively the sum of the diatones and
the sum of the two quints of the intervals.

*4 The conditions for two intervals being the generators of an
interval space are given on pages 65 through 75.

*5 Apparently, the reason that an interval space other than
"K_1"
was used to illustrate transformations from "I" is because the
quint axis in "K_1" is the same as that in "I".
Interval space
"K_0" necessitated a change in both the vertical and
horizontal
axes and coordinates, thus representing a more general example of
these transformations.

*6 As shown, any interval i = (d,q) in "I" can be
reinterpreted
in terms of coordinates (k_0, q_0) in interval space "K_1" as
given by the transformation equation: i = k_0(7,0) + q_0(4,1).
The frequency ratio of i, expressed as a logarithm to the base 2
and symbolized as the log frequency-ratio lf(i), is given by the
equation: lf(i) = k_0 * lf(7,0) + q_0 * lf(4,1). Since the value
of the perfect octave (7,0) was defined to be 2:1, its log
frequency-ratio to the base 2 equals 1 and the equation now reads:
lf(i) = k_0 + q_0 * lf(4,1).

*7 J. Murray Barbour, TUNING AND TEMPERAMENT: A HISTORICAL SURVEY,
2nd ed. (East Lansing, 1953), ix.

*8 The first of these relates to "consonance": that preferred
frequency-ratios are "those involving the lower numbers when in
lowest terms" (p. 127). Second, "preferred"
frequency-ratios
are "those which can be derived by linear combination from
known `preferred' values for other intervals, beginning with
the ratios 3/2 for a perfect fifth and 5/4 for a major third"
(pp. 127-8).

*9 I could not imagine how an analysis of the musical score
could be made on the basis of pitch alone, since the rhythmic
and metric context determines so many of the melodic and harmonic
considerations. Almost as though finishing an incomplete sentence,
the final chapter of the book does show the necessity for relating
pitch with the metric/rhythmic dimensions.

------------------------------------------

-monz
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html

πŸ”—Joseph Pehrson <pehrson@pubmedia.com>

10/24/2000 6:56:12 AM

--- In tuning@egroups.com, " Monz" <MONZ@J...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14995

This is quite interesting, Monz, and you really do find some unusual
stuff back in the stacks!

This system really seems to emphasize the "quint" or the perfect
fifth as a prime generator of pitch, though, doesn't it??

I think I would be just as happy with the Forte/Babbitt "pitch class,
interval class" nomenclature based on semitones...

Also, there is much toodoo about finding frequencies of pitches.
That's not really "rocket science" is it?? Doesn't seem too hard
in general, yes??...

Joe Pehrson

πŸ”—Monz <MONZ@JUNO.COM>

10/25/2000 12:29:09 PM

In Chrisman's review of Regener, I quoted:

> http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14995
>
> For any two intervals that generate a new interval space
> from "I", the following transformation equations relate
> the coordinates of a point (d,q) in "I", whose unit
> vectors are (1,0) and (0,1), with the new coordinates
> (a,b) in the generated space, whose intervals i and j
> - the new unit vectors - serve as a minimal basis for
> the new space:
>
> d(1,0) + q(0,1) = ai + bj

Joseph Pehrson responded:

> http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/15006
>
> This system really seems to emphasize the "quint" or the
> perfect fifth as a prime generator of pitch, though, doesn't it??

Yes, Joe, that's true of the 'K-1' interval space, but not
of many other possible interval-space transformations. I'd
like to explore some of those, but the math has me confused...

Chrisman uses Regener's interval space 'K_1' for his
detailed examination. It's easy for me to see how to
solve for a and b because b=q and q can thus be simply
substituted for b in the equations.

The transformation to interval space 'K_0', however,
leaves me confused.

The transformation equation from interval space 'I'
to interval space K_0, according to Chrisman, would be:

d(1,0) + q(0,1) = a(3,-1) + b(1,2) so
(d,q) = (3a+b,-a+2b) and
d = 3a + b
q = -a + 2b

So far so good.

But when I try to solve for a and b, I get circular
references:

a = (d-b)/3 = (d - ( (q+a) / 2) ) / 3
b = (q+a)/2 = (q + ( (d-b) / 3) ) / 2

Help!

-monz
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html

πŸ”—Paul H. Erlich <PERLICH@ACADIAN-ASSET.COM>

10/25/2000 1:11:22 PM

Joe Monzo wrote,

> d = 3a + b
> q = -a + 2b

>So far so good.

>But when I try to solve for a and b, I get circular
>references:

> a = (d-b)/3 = (d - ( (q+a) / 2) ) / 3
> b = (q+a)/2 = (q + ( (d-b) / 3) ) / 2

>Help!

Hi Joe!

You can solve this system of equations by tripling the second equation:

3q = -3a + 6b

and then adding the other equation

3q = -3a + 6b
+ d = 3a + b
----------------------
= 3q+d = 7b

So b = (3q+d)/7.

Now plug that back into either equation to solve for a. Using

d = 3a + b

we find

d = 3a + (3q+d)/7

3a = (6d-3q)/7

a = (2d-q)/7.

Another way to solve this is using matrix inversion (which we just discussed
off-list). The original system of equations can be written:

[d] [ 3 1] [a]
[ ] = [ ]*[ ]
[q] [-1 2] [b]

This can be solved by "dividing both sides" by the matrix, or technically,
inverting the matrix, which yields

[a] [2/7 -1/7] [d]
[ ] = [ ]*[ ]
[b] [1/7 3/7] [q]

By the way, the formula for the inverse of a two-by-two matrix

[a b]
[ ]
[c d]

is

1 [ d -b]
---*[ ]
det [-c a]

where

det = a*d - b*c.

That should answer your off-list question to me too, Monz.

πŸ”—Monz <MONZ@JUNO.COM>

10/26/2000 1:20:42 AM

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

> http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/15059
>
> You can solve this system of equations by tripling the second
> equation:
>
> 3q = -3a + 6b
>
> and then adding the other equation
>
>
> 3q = -3a + 6b
> + d = 3a + b
> ----------------------
> = 3q+d = 7b
>
> So b = (3q+d)/7.

Thanks, Paul!! I can always rely on you to teach me
Remedial Algebra.

And I'm especially grateful for the instruction on how
to calculate the inverse matrices. Thanks!

Now, can *you* illustrate the potential uses of some other
types of interval spaces, according to Regener's theory?

-monz
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html

πŸ”—Paul H. Erlich <PERLICH@ACADIAN-ASSET.COM>

10/26/2000 11:10:29 AM

Monz wrote,

>Now, can *you* illustrate the potential uses of some other
>types of interval spaces, according to Regener's theory?

I'll pass, unless there's a specific _musical_ application or problem you
have in mind.

πŸ”—Gene Ward Smith <gwsmith@svpal.org>

10/21/2005 12:52:36 PM

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, " Monz" <MONZ@J...> wrote:

> Interval space "K_0" was used only to illustrate the
> transformation
> from "I" to some other space. Regener now constructs another
> space "K_1" based on the intervals (7,0) (the upward perfect
> 8ve)
> and (4,1) (the upward perfect fifth), an interval space much more
> useful and historically consistent in terms of intonation theory,
> and one which also simplifies the mathematics.

This illustrates in a particular case how a rank-two tone group can be
converted to the period-generator basis.

> Regener then proves that in a regular intonation system all the
> frequency ratios will be completely determined by assigning a
> particular frequency ratio to just one notated interval other
> than the perfect prime or its octave equivalents. It is here
> (pp. 89-94) that the final link between notated pitches and
> frequency ratios is made: the log frequency-ratio of any interval
> i = (d,q) can be given in terms of the transformation coordinates
> (k_0,q_0), which as shown above can be derived from (d,q), and in
> terms of the log frequency-ratio of the perfect fifth. *6 The log
> frequency-ratio of the perfect fifth thus acts as the "determining
> constant" for the entire regular intonation system: its value
> determines the value of every other interval (except the perfect
> octave, which is already defined).

This illustrates in a special case that the tuning of a rank-two
temperament with pure octaves is defined by the tuning of its generator.

> Although Regener briefly discusses open systems, he is mainly
> concerned with closed regular systems, for which he proves that
> a system is closed if and only if it has a "non-trivial"
> enharmonic
> interval: an interval (from F_0) other than the perfect prime,
> whose frequency-ratio is 1:1 Β– an interval that closes the system
> in the sense of which Barbour speaks.

This illustrates in a special case that if a comma is added to a
rank-two temperament it becomes rank-one.

> Also, I am not convinced that Regener's notational system would
> be necessary for an objective study, since there already exists
> a completely objective means for representing the musical score
> Β– the Ford-Columbia Music Representation for computer analysis.

It depends on whether the score is understandable in meantone terms or
not.

> I assume that Regener is also implying the application of
> mathematics, beyond the notation itself, which might very well
> prove to be important, as it has in other fields (quantum
> mechanics, for example).

Nothing you described is really new so far as I can see.

> If proofs are essential, these can be
> placed in appendices or, even more simply, can be referred to in
> other sources, since nearly all of the math used for music can be
> found in basic undergraduate texts.

Unfortunately, this is not always true. However, the basic mathematics
of group theory and linear algebra would apparently suffice for
Regner, as they mostly do.

A formal approach may very
> well lead to important conclusions, but there is usually no need
> to present these conclusions in a form that may limit the
> readership to what I suspect is a very small number.

Tell it to Mazzola. It doesn't sound to me that Regner has indulged in
any excessive mathematizing, but I'm prejudiced.

πŸ”—Carl Lumma <clumma@yahoo.com>

10/21/2005 5:24:02 PM

> the Ford-Columbia Music Representation for computer analysis.

Does anybody know what this is?

-Carl

πŸ”—monz <monz@tonalsoft.com>

10/22/2005 1:09:20 AM

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Lumma" <clumma@y...> wrote:
>
> > the Ford-Columbia Music Representation for computer analysis.
>
> Does anybody know what this is?

It's a method of scanning regular printed musical scores
and storing the data in alpha-numeric format for computer
processing, preserving all the of information in the
printed score. It's similar to OCR, but for music.

Here's a reference:

Prerau, D. S. 1971.
"Computer pattern recognition of printed music"
_AFIP Conference proceedings, Vol.39_
(1971 fall joint computer conference), p 153-62

abstract:

"The standard notation used to specify most instrumental
and vocal music forms a conventionalized, two-dimensional,
visual pattern class. This paper discusses computer
recognition of the music information specified by a
sample of this standard notation. A sample of printed
music notation is scanned optically, and a digitized
version of the music sample is fed into the computer.
The digitized sample may be considered the data-set sensed
by the computer. The computer performs the recognition
and then produces an output in the Ford-Columbia music
representation. Ford-Columbia is an alphanumeric language
isomorphic to standard music notation It is therefore
capable of representing the music information specified
by the original sample."

And another, unfortunately out of print and apparently
totally unavailable anywhere on the internet:

Erickson, Raymond R. 1977.
_DARMS: a reference manual_
ISBN: B0007AKH6K

Erickson's book is listed here but it's not a link,
but there are some other links which may be of interest:

http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=38762

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com
Tonescape microtonal music software