Review of Harrison piece

The following is part of a little "review" I did of the Lou Harrison
piece today played by the American Composers Orchestra, with Ursula
Oppens at the piano. I hope I got the Kirnberger part right...

AMERICAN COMPOSERS ORCHESTRA, "PACIFICA" -- ASIAN-INFLUENCED WORKS.
SUNDAY, OCTOBER 15, 2000, CARNEGIE HALL, 3PM. Dennis Russell Davies,
conductor, Ursula Oppens, piano solo.

After Intermission we proceeded to the main work of the afternoon,
the repeat performance by the ACO of Lou Harrison's PIANO CONCERTO
from 1985 with Ursula Oppens, piano soloist. Although not mentioned
in the program, this was the same piece that was premiered by the
orchestra in 1985 with Keith Jarrett at the ivories.

Ms. Oppens does a nice job with this piece. I heard a few "flubs"
here and there in octaves (aren't they TOO easy to hear!) but she DID
memorize the entire work, a labor of dedication distinct from legions
of pianists whose "devotion" to contemporary music is evidenced by
the omnipresent piano score.

The most noticeable feature of the PIANO CONCERTO is the fact that it
is a big "alternately tuned" piece. It is NOT in the standard 12
tempered pitches per octave for which we are accustomed in the West.
Instead, the piano and orchestra are tuned in "Kirnberger II" a "well
temperament." Kirnberger (1721-1783) was a student of J.S. Bach and
constructed this tuning, a pretty easy one to effect. Essentially
almost all the perfect fifths (and therefore fourths) of the tuning
are "just" (meaning no beats), with some tempering of a final "A" at
the end of the tuning cycle. This tuning has some extraordinary
features: just intonation major triads on C and G and just
intonation minor triads on E and B. It is no wonder that Lou
Harrison is so enamored of this tuning --- it is about as close as
one can come to "just intonation," music with no interval beating,
and
still use only 12 pitches per octave.

In order to easily create an "alternately tuned" orchestra, Harrison
chose to use only certain instruments that could play non 12-equal
music easily. Woodwinds were eliminated, as were valved brass.
Remaining are strings, trombones, piano and 2 harps. Trombone is the
quintessential microtonal brass instrument, since the fundamental can
be changed continuously to produce ANY pitch! For this reason,
Harrison uses THREE of them in the orchestra, and they partially
compensate for all the other orchestral instruments not present. Of
course, harps and piano can easily be tuned to Kirnberger.

So what was the result of all of this alternate tuning? Well,
actually Kirnberger, having 12 pitches per octave, is not ENTIRELY
removed from our "regular" system, so the effect is subtle. The just
intonation effects were heard especially in the solo piano passages,
where the major thirds seemed noticeably narrower.

Regarding the structure of the music, the first movement, "Allegro,"
is modal in nature, with figuration derived from Harrison's love of
gamelan music. However, his melodic lines are Western, and are
extended in practically a Nadia Boulanger "long line" sense. In
addition, his harmonic progressions are thoroughly Western, and there
is a sense that an emotional underpinning of harmony is essential in
Harrison.

The second movement, "Stampede, Allegro" is great fun and uses many
tone clusters in the piano, something Harrison learned from his
studies with Henry Cowell. He uses an "octave bar," which is
essentially a piece of wood (Ives uses something similar too in his
CONCORD SONATA) that can play all 12 pitches of the octave
simultaneously. I would think that percussionists might love the
PIANO CONCERTO, since there is a tom tom player right up at the front
of the stage throughout the whole piece. He becomes particularly
active during the second movement!

The third movement, "Largo" is the most astonishing. It is a simple
LISTENING experience, with chords that strike deeply into the
listeners' consciousness. These sonorities are echoed in the
Kirnberger-tuned strings. The final movement makes a short close. It
uses bells to add to Harrison's gamelan/Western mix for this "Allegro
moderato."

The PIANO CONCERTO is fun to listen to. Listening is the key with
Harrison, as is emotional effect. The overall impact of the work,
particularly in the slow second movement, could support some people's
contention that Lou Harrison is our greatest living American composer.

JOSEPH PEHRSON

Kirnberger II is an unusual tuning -- the fifths D-A and A-E are flattened
by 1/2 Pythagorean comma each -- flatter than 26-tET fifths!

Joseph!
This is the tuning that Lou has on his piano at home and the one he writes all his 12 ET
music. I find his own answer to this concerto,superior, the Concerto for piano with Javanese
gamelan (available on Leonardo Music Journal CD series. Vol. 2 ISAST2) This is actually maybe
my favorite piece of Lou's! I saw Ursula Oppens perform "the people united shall never be
defeated" and I was blown away. I cannot imagine that her performance had to outdo the hack
work of Keith Jarrett who continues to butcher classics almost as quickly as the knonos seems
to do with modern quartets!

Joseph Pehrson wrote:

> The following is part of a little "review" I did of the Lou Harrison
> piece today played by the American Composers Orchestra, with Ursula
> Oppens at the piano. I hope I got the Kirnberger part right...
>
> AMERICAN COMPOSERS ORCHESTRA, "PACIFICA" -- ASIAN-INFLUENCED WORKS.
> SUNDAY, OCTOBER 15, 2000, CARNEGIE HALL, 3PM. Dennis Russell Davies,
> conductor, Ursula Oppens, piano solo.
>
> After Intermission we proceeded to the main work of the afternoon,
> the repeat performance by the ACO of Lou Harrison's PIANO CONCERTO
> from 1985 with Ursula Oppens, piano soloist. Although not mentioned
> in the program, this was the same piece that was premiered by the
> orchestra in 1985 with Keith Jarrett at the ivories.
>
> Ms. Oppens does a nice job with this piece. I heard a few "flubs"
> here and there in octaves (aren't they TOO easy to hear!) but she DID
> memorize the entire work, a labor of dedication distinct from legions
> of pianists whose "devotion" to contemporary music is evidenced by
> the omnipresent piano score.
>
> The most noticeable feature of the PIANO CONCERTO is the fact that it
> is a big "alternately tuned" piece. It is NOT in the standard 12
> tempered pitches per octave for which we are accustomed in the West.
> Instead, the piano and orchestra are tuned in "Kirnberger II" a "well
> temperament." Kirnberger (1721-1783) was a student of J.S. Bach and
> constructed this tuning, a pretty easy one to effect. Essentially
> almost all the perfect fifths (and therefore fourths) of the tuning
> are "just" (meaning no beats), with some tempering of a final "A" at
> the end of the tuning cycle. This tuning has some extraordinary
> features: just intonation major triads on C and G and just
> intonation minor triads on E and B. It is no wonder that Lou
> Harrison is so enamored of this tuning --- it is about as close as
> one can come to "just intonation," music with no interval beating,
> and
> still use only 12 pitches per octave.
>
> In order to easily create an "alternately tuned" orchestra, Harrison
> chose to use only certain instruments that could play non 12-equal
> music easily. Woodwinds were eliminated, as were valved brass.
> Remaining are strings, trombones, piano and 2 harps. Trombone is the
> quintessential microtonal brass instrument, since the fundamental can
> be changed continuously to produce ANY pitch! For this reason,
> Harrison uses THREE of them in the orchestra, and they partially
> compensate for all the other orchestral instruments not present. Of
> course, harps and piano can easily be tuned to Kirnberger.
>
> So what was the result of all of this alternate tuning? Well,
> actually Kirnberger, having 12 pitches per octave, is not ENTIRELY
> removed from our "regular" system, so the effect is subtle. The just
> intonation effects were heard especially in the solo piano passages,
> where the major thirds seemed noticeably narrower.
>
> Regarding the structure of the music, the first movement, "Allegro,"
> is modal in nature, with figuration derived from Harrison's love of
> gamelan music. However, his melodic lines are Western, and are
> extended in practically a Nadia Boulanger "long line" sense. In
> addition, his harmonic progressions are thoroughly Western, and there
> is a sense that an emotional underpinning of harmony is essential in
> Harrison.
>
> The second movement, "Stampede, Allegro" is great fun and uses many
> tone clusters in the piano, something Harrison learned from his
> studies with Henry Cowell. He uses an "octave bar," which is
> essentially a piece of wood (Ives uses something similar too in his
> CONCORD SONATA) that can play all 12 pitches of the octave
> simultaneously. I would think that percussionists might love the
> PIANO CONCERTO, since there is a tom tom player right up at the front
> of the stage throughout the whole piece. He becomes particularly
> active during the second movement!
>
> The third movement, "Largo" is the most astonishing. It is a simple
> LISTENING experience, with chords that strike deeply into the
> listeners' consciousness. These sonorities are echoed in the
> Kirnberger-tuned strings. The final movement makes a short close. It
> uses bells to add to Harrison's gamelan/Western mix for this "Allegro
> moderato."
>
> The PIANO CONCERTO is fun to listen to. Listening is the key with
> Harrison, as is emotional effect. The overall impact of the work,
> particularly in the slow second movement, could support some people's
> contention that Lou Harrison is our greatest living American composer.
>
> JOSEPH PEHRSON
>
>
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-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
www.anaphoria.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kraig Grady [mailto:kraiggrady@anaphoria.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 10:07 PM
> To: tuning@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [tuning] Review of Harrison piece
>
> I cannot imagine that her
> performance had to outdo the hack
> work of Keith Jarrett who continues to butcher classics almost as
> quickly as the knonos seems
> to do with modern quartets!

I don't have any Kronos recordings, but I do have Jarrett's recording of the
24 Preludes and Fugues, Opus 87, of Shostakovich, and I would hardly refer
to this recording as a butchering of this exquisite work! Before Jarrett,
the only recordings of the entire work were by Nikolaeva, for whom the piece
was supposedly written. And one of those was a Soviet recording of dubious
quality. But, of course, now we have the Vladimir Ashkenazy recording as
well to choose.
--
M. Edward Borasky
mailto:znmeb@teleport.com
http://www.borasky-research.com

Cold leftover pizza: it's not just for breakfast any more!

"M. Edward Borasky" wrote:

>
> I don't have any Kronos recordings, but I do have Jarrett's recording of the
> 24 Preludes and Fugues, Opus 87, of Shostakovich, and I would hardly refer
> to this recording as a butchering of this exquisite work!

As this is the first piece that I really noticed how bland he seemed, this is funny. The first
recording That i heard in the late 70's was by Roger Woodard which I wore out 3 copy of the
cheap vinyl it was (shame) issued on. I even attempted to get this version repressed but
couldn't get pass his manager. I still find this recording a good rival to Vladimir Ashkenazy
who is nothing short of a monster ( I saw him live at the end of a series of well known
pianists and he was light years ahead). I had assumed he was just a pop star, boy was I proved
wrong). Anyway look for the woodard version in the used bins. Nikolaeva version seemed too
slow for my taste, but might be closer to a russian sentiment. There is also 3 cds of Dimitri
playing these which I haven't had the money to get .
BTW there is a new recording of his 4th symphony conducted by Rozhdestvensky (if someone
knows how to pronounce that, please inform). His version on Melodia is the best but this live
radio broadcast is great. There is coughing from start to finish. so much you feel like it
must have been performed in a TB clinic. There is something refreshing in this era of such
sanitized slickness that you could still get a release like this. The power of this
performance can't be stopped and rival all others, except the superior Melodia recording. It
is a budget release on praga productions pr 7250 090 ( this is a subdivision of Le Chant Du
Monde) I consider this the one of the most unrecognized piece of the 20th century ( in
respect to european ethnic court music) , not to mention the organ works of Jehan Alain and
Sibelius 4th sym.( with its unique take on impressionism)

> Before Jarrett,
> the only recordings of the entire work were by .Nikolaeva, for whom the piece
> was supposedly written. And one of those was a Soviet recording of dubious
> quality. But, of course, now we have the Vladimir Ashkenazy recording as
> well to choose.
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
www.anaphoria.com

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14434

> Kirnberger II is an unusual tuning -- the fifths D-A and A-E are
flattened
> by 1/2 Pythagorean comma each -- flatter than 26-tET fifths!

Harrison, himself, mentioned in the program notes that the pitch "A"
is a "little" flat!

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14436

> Joseph!
> This is the tuning that Lou has on his piano at home and the
one
he writes all his 12 ET music. I find his own answer to this
concerto,superior, the Concerto for piano with Javanese
> gamelan (available on Leonardo Music Journal CD series. Vol. 2
ISAST2) This is actually maybe my favorite piece of Lou's! I saw
Ursula Oppens perform "the people united shall never be
> defeated" and I was blown away. I cannot imagine that her
performance had to outdo the hack work of Keith Jarrett who continues
to butcher classics almost as quickly as the knonos seems to do with
modern quartets!
>

Hi Kraig!

I actually never saw the premiere of the piece in 1985 with Keith
Jarrett. I didn't attend, wishing to avoit the "hoopla..."

This piece brings back great memories. The premiere in Carnegie Hall of the
Kirnberger-tuned concerto was tuned by Jim Esher, now a tuner at the state
college in Potsdam, New York. He called me up and offered an exchange, I
would help him negotiate the intricacies of Kirnberger II (of which the 1/2
comma off A is really the only complication) and he would teach me how to
tune pianos. He gave me a tuning hammer, rubber, and ribbon and I have never
again felt hostage to a piano.

Johnny Reinhard

"Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

>> Kirnberger II is an unusual tuning -- the fifths D-A and A-E are
>flattened
>> by 1/2 Pythagorean comma each -- flatter than 26-tET fifths!

Joseph Pehrson:
>
>Harrison, himself, mentioned in the program notes that the pitch "A"
>is a "little" flat!

And there are places where Lou uses that to his advantage, creating tension
at specific points. I also want to ask about the meaning of this:

Joseph Pehrson:

>it is about as close as one can come to "just intonation," music with no
>interval beating, and still use only 12 pitches per octave.

I (and Harrison and many others) use JI with 12 or fewer pitches per octave
all the time.

Bill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Bill Alves <ALVES@O...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14453

>
I also want to ask about the meaning of this:
>
> Joseph Pehrson:
>
> >it is about as close as one can come to "just intonation," music
with no interval beating, and still use only 12 pitches per octave.
>
> I (and Harrison and many others) use JI with 12 or fewer pitches
per octave all the time.
>

Hi Bill!

I guess I was confusing this with ET's here, and the possibility of
approaching just intonation with larger ETs as contrasted with
smaller ones.

Of course, Kirnberger is NOT an ET or, I would imagine, what YOU are
using... so probably that sentence should be dropped, correct??

Thanks for the help!

>> Joseph Pehrson:
>>
>> >it is about as close as one can come to "just intonation," music
>with no interval beating, and still use only 12 pitches per octave.
>>
>> I (and Harrison and many others) use JI with 12 or fewer pitches
>per octave all the time.
>>
>
>I guess I was confusing this with ET's here, and the possibility of
>approaching just intonation with larger ETs as contrasted with
>smaller ones.
>
>Of course, Kirnberger is NOT an ET or, I would imagine, what YOU are
>using... so probably that sentence should be dropped, correct??
>
Joseph,

Kirnberger II is unusual in that it approaches JI (only one tempered note)
and still works for many common-practice pieces. You could make that point,
I suppose, but, of course Harrison's is not a common-practice piece, so I
think to avoid confusion, yes, I would suggest dropping the sentence.

Bill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Bill Alves <ALVES@O...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14457

>>
> Kirnberger II is unusual in that it approaches JI (only one
tempered
note)and still works for many common-practice pieces. You could make
that point, I suppose, but, of course Harrison's is not a
common-practice piece, so I think to avoid confusion, yes, I would
suggest dropping the sentence.
>
> Bill
>

Thanks, Bill, this is very helpful! Somehow I knew I'd get some
constructive feedback if I ran this by ye ol' Tuning List!!

Bill Alves wrote,

>And there are places where Lou uses that to his advantage, creating tension
>at specific points. I also want to ask about the meaning of this:

>Joseph Pehrson:

>>it is about as close as one can come to "just intonation," music with no
>>interval beating, and still use only 12 pitches per octave.

>I (and Harrison and many others) use JI with 12 or fewer pitches per octave
>all the time.

Well, there's something more specific meant -- Kirnberger II will have more
usable consonant intervals available than any 12-tone JI set, but most of
these intervals are in JI or quasi-JI! If you ignore the A, Kirnberger II is
simply schismatic Pythagorean tuning -- in other words, C major, G major, E
minor, and B minor are only a schisma, or 2 cents, off from 5-limit JI. And
of course you have pure fifths going around the circle starting with E, B,
F# . . . and ending with C, G, D. The A being 1/2 comma flat means that,
with some pain but not extreme dissonance, one can use the chords F major, D
major, A major, D minor, A minor, and F# minor to "get around" in the near
side of the circle of fifths in a way that a strict 12-tone JI tuning could
never allow you to do.

Bill Alves wrote,

>I think to avoid confusion, yes, I would suggest dropping the sentence.

Or better yet, add a half-sentence qualification to make it correct!

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14468

> Bill Alves wrote,
>
> >I think to avoid confusion, yes, I would suggest dropping the
sentence.
>
> Or better yet, add a half-sentence qualification to make it correct!

You know, I thought I was "on to something" with what I was saying...

How about this:

"It is about as close as one can come to "just intonation" music with
no interval beating, and still have a transposable system with 12
pitches per octave."

???

Joseph wrote,

>"It is about as close as one can come to "just intonation" music with
>no interval beating, and still have a transposable system with 12
>pitches per octave."

Since one might misintepret that as saying that the system has no interval
beating, how about:

>"It is about as close as one can come to "just intonation" music with
>many beatless or barely beating intervals, and still have a transposable
system with 12
>pitches per octave."

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14472

> Joseph wrote,
>
> >"It is about as close as one can come to "just intonation" music
with no interval beating, and still have a transposable system with
12
> >pitches per octave."
>
> Since one might misintepret that as saying that the system has no
interval beating, how about:
>
> >"It is about as close as one can come to "just intonation" music
with many beatless or barely beating intervals, and still have a
transposable system with 12 pitches per octave."

Whoopie! Paul, you *ARE* an Einstein! I will send it to the editor
this evening!

Paul suggests to Joseph:

>>"It is about as close as one can come to "just intonation" music with
>>many beatless or barely beating intervals, and still have a transposable
>>system with 12 pitches per octave."

Not to make too much of this single sentence, but I would suggest that
"transposability" is a relative concept dependent on taste and musical
context. There are plenty of examples of modulations in Harrison's own
pieces in JI with 12 or fewer tones per octave. Personally, I think the
review stands well without the sentence, but perhaps I shouldn't spend any
more of people's bandwidth nitpicking this point.

Bill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
^ Claremont CA 91711 USA (909)607-7600 (fax) ^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>>>"It is about as close as one can come to "just intonation" music with
>>>many beatless or barely beating intervals, and still have a transposable
>>>system with 12 pitches per octave."

>Not to make too much of this single sentence, but I would suggest that
>"transposability" is a relative concept dependent on taste and musical
>context. There are plenty of examples of modulations in Harrison's own
>pieces in JI with 12 or fewer tones per octave. Personally, I think the
>review stands well without the sentence, but perhaps I shouldn't spend any
>more of people's bandwidth nitpicking this point.

All right -- how about we change this to "fully transposable system" -- all
triads in all keys are usable. That would make the point that there are no
"wolves" here, as there would be in a 12-tone JI system.

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14476

> All right -- how about we change this to "fully transposable
system"
-- all triads in all keys are usable. That would make the point that
there are no "wolves" here, as there would be in a 12-tone JI system.

I'm going to add this... but the point is more important.

Do you think that, possibly, Harrison chose Kirnberger *BECAUSE* of
this possibility of "full transposability." It seems likely that he
would, yes?? which, for better or worse, tends to lend a certain
"value judgement" on the kinds of transpositions he was thinking
about... correct??

Joseph wrote,

>Do you think that, possibly, Harrison chose Kirnberger *BECAUSE* of
>this possibility of "full transposability." It seems likely that he
>would, yes??

Yes.

>which, for better or worse, tends to lend a certain
>"value judgement" on the kinds of transpositions he was thinking
>about... correct??

This I don't get. What do you have in mind?

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14482

>
> >which, for better or worse, tends to lend a certain
> >"value judgement" on the kinds of transpositions he was thinking
> >about... correct??
>
> This I don't get. What do you have in mind?

Well.... I was just responding to Bill Alves commentes... which I
took to mean that Alves was thinking that there were *other* kinds of
transpositions that wouldn't involve triad transpositions and the
comma problems... in other words, that the idea of transposition was
linked to STYLE of music and, in Harrison's case, the transposibility
of triads was important...

Yes, no??

Joseph wrote,

>Well.... I was just responding to Bill Alves commentes... which I
>took to mean that Alves was thinking that there were *other* kinds of
>transpositions that wouldn't involve triad transpositions and the
>comma problems... in other words, that the idea of transposition was
>linked to STYLE of music and, in Harrison's case, the transposibility
>of triads was important...

>Yes, no??

I think Bill meant that in 12-tone JI systems, some scale (or several) can
be transposed by certain intervals and still retain the beatless tuning of
whichever intervals and triads Harrison likes to use from the scale.
However, certain other transpositions will lead to "wolf" intervals. In
Kirnberger II, you can do any transposition you're used to doing in 12-tET,
and while the quality may drastically change, it never reaches the dissonant
level of a "wolf".

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14485

> I think Bill meant that in 12-tone JI systems, some scale (or
several) can be transposed by certain intervals and still retain the
beatless tuning of whichever intervals and triads Harrison likes to
use from the scale. However, certain other transpositions will lead
to "wolf" intervals. In Kirnberger II, you can do any transposition
you're used to doing in 12-tET, and while the quality may drastically
change, it never reaches the dissonant level of a "wolf".

I think that was "kind of" what I was thinking about... but thanks
for defining it more specifically...

Paul!
Unless one finds the 27/20 and the 40/27 musically useful. I was my impression that this
is the least amount of tuning modification he considers doing. Not an end in itself. His
frustration with the limits of this tuning egged him on to write the one in Slendro!

"Paul H. Erlich" wrote:

> "get around" in the near
> side of the circle of fifths in a way that a strict 12-tone JI tuning could
> never allow you to do.
>
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
www.anaphoria.com

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> Joseph!
> This is the tuning that Lou has on his piano at home and the
one he writes all his 12 ET
> music. I find his own answer to this concerto,superior, the

Is this piano tuned to strict Kirnberger II or is it also stretch-
tuned?

Thanks,
Paolo

Paolo!
If you mean stretched octaves, Lou seems quite against the idea!

phv40@hotmail.com wrote:

> --- In tuning@egroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> > Joseph!
> > This is the tuning that Lou has on his piano at home and the
> one he writes all his 12 ET
> > music. I find his own answer to this concerto,superior, the
>
> Is this piano tuned to strict Kirnberger II or is it also stretch-
> tuned?
>
> Thanks,
> Paolo
>

-- Kraig Grady
North American Embassy of Anaphoria island
www.anaphoria.com

--- In tuning@egroups.com, phv40@h... wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/14942

> --- In tuning@egroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:
> > Joseph!
> > This is the tuning that Lou has on his piano at home and the
> one he writes all his 12 ET
> > music. I find his own answer to this concerto,superior, the
>
> Is this piano tuned to strict Kirnberger II or is it also stretch-
> tuned?
>
> Thanks,
> Paolo

My impression from the program was that the tuning was strict
Kirnberger II for the piano, and all the orchestral instruments
emulated it as well...

_________ ____ __ _
Joseph Pehrson