Reaktor Microtonal Capabilities

Do any of you know for sure that the Mac version of Reaktor (a software
synthesizer) supports completely arbitrary tuning tables (that is, any MIDI note
may be tuned to any pitch irrelevant of how any other MIDI note is tuned)?

>Do any of you know for sure that the Mac version of Reaktor (a
>software synthesizer) supports completely arbitrary tuning tables
>(that is, any MIDI note may be tuned to any pitch irrelevant of how
>any other MIDI note is tuned)?

I do it all the time. Reaktor is my synth of choice. In the
User library is a macro called "Microtune12" which lets you remap any
of the 12 notes to +/50c from equal. You can of course play with the
macro a bit if you need to move further away (which I sometimes do).
There are several macros for various non-12 equal tunings which of
course makes the keyboard funky to use, though I've not used them.

--
wm,
who spends a lot of time detwelvulating the Reaktor Premium library
synths

Bill can you send me a reaktor patch so i can see the tuning??
cheers

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://www.virtulink.com/immp/video/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: William S. Annis <wsannis@execpc.com>
To: <tuning@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Reaktor Microtonal Capabilities

>
> >Do any of you know for sure that the Mac version of Reaktor (a
> >software synthesizer) supports completely arbitrary tuning tables
> >(that is, any MIDI note may be tuned to any pitch irrelevant of how
> >any other MIDI note is tuned)?
>
> I do it all the time. Reaktor is my synth of choice. In the
> User library is a macro called "Microtune12" which lets you remap any
> of the 12 notes to +/50c from equal. You can of course play with the
> macro a bit if you need to move further away (which I sometimes do).
> There are several macros for various non-12 equal tunings which of
> course makes the keyboard funky to use, though I've not used them.
>
> --
> wm,
> who spends a lot of time detwelvulating the Reaktor Premium library
> synths
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
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mode.
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emails.
>
>
>

"William S. Annis" wrote:

> I do it all the time. Reaktor is my synth of choice. In the
> User library is a macro called "Microtune12" which lets you remap any
> of the 12 notes to +/50c from equal.

Thanks for the reply.

Let me verify first that you're speaking of the Mac version, true?

Either way though, apparently I didn't made the capability I'm looking for clear. Please
allow me to repeat my question:

>Do any of you know for sure that the Mac version of Reaktor (a
>software synthesizer) supports completely arbitrary tuning tables
>(that is, any MIDI note may be tuned to any pitch irrelevant of how
>any other MIDI note is tuned)?

What I think you described was the ability to define 12-tone-per-octave tunings wherein none
of the notes differs from 12TET by more than a quartertone. What I'm looking for is
vaaaaaaasstly less limited than that: The retunability of an Ensoniq ASR-10, Emu Morpheus,
Yamaha TG-77, and others: The ability to:

1. Define MIDI note 0 to any arbitrary frequency within the audio frequency range, then
2. tune MIDI note 1 to any other arbitrary frequency within the audio frequency range, then
3. set MIDI note 2 to any other arbitrary frequency within the audio frequency range, and
4. so forth all the way up to MIDI note number 127, each such arbitrary frequency being
entirely independent of the frequencies I chose for any of the other MIDI notes.

I could possibly settle with a full-MIDI-range (128-pitch) table wherein each note has to be
higher than or the same pitch as the next lower note. That would preclude me using the octave
keys of my WX-11 as a quartersharp sort of thing, but I can live with that if I need to. I
could also deal with something of that nature that requires that the pattern repeat itself as
you move up in pitch, provided that the pattern is not required to repeat in octaves or have
12 pitches in the pattern.

Thanks again for the info.

Gary Morrison was asking,

<<
Do any of you know for sure that the Mac version of Reaktor (a software
synthesizer) supports completely arbitrary tuning tables (that is, any MIDI
note may be tuned to any pitch irrelevant of how any other MIDI note is
tuned)?
>>

I use Reaktor for microtonal experimentation. The Mac and Wintel versions
of Reaktor are both capable of pretty much the same thing. Reaktor could be
described as a Synth/Effects construction kit. It may not do exactly what
you want right out of the box but you can build the macro or module yourself
to accomplish your goal. This implies a fair bit of a learning curve if
you've never worked with modular synths before.

Just as an aside one of the intriguing possibilities of Reaktor for JI that
has occurred to me is the possiblity of building the ratio frequencies
directly using the built in multiplication and division modules and then
converting them to a logarithmic value using Reaktor's conversion module.
Because Reaktor contains an impressive array of switching and logic modules
you could even switch ratios in and out of the calculation logic under MIDI
control.

Reaktor doesn't currenly support system exclusive messages but you can have
it respond to any MIDI controller or note event message that you want to
use.

It really is a very versatile and powerful system of custom software synth
building.

To answer your question, yes, you could build a module to include in your
synth designs to assign any note event to an arbitrary value in controlling
frequency output. _Now_ you've got me interested. I'll give it a try today
and keep you posted.

-Fred

>From: "Fred Kohler" <fred.kohler@telus.net>
>
><<
>Do any of you know for sure that the Mac version of Reaktor (a software
>synthesizer) supports completely arbitrary tuning tables (that is, any MIDI
>note may be tuned to any pitch irrelevant of how any other MIDI note is
>tuned)?
>>>
>
>It really is a very versatile and powerful system of custom software synth
>building.

Let's not forget the complexity that comes with this power,
though. :)

>To answer your question, yes, you could build a module to include in your
>synth designs to assign any note event to an arbitrary value in controlling
>frequency output. _Now_ you've got me interested. I'll give it a try today
>and keep you posted.

Please keep us all posted. I've never myself wanted to tune
C# differently in different octaves, so I didn't consider that
possibility in my answer Gary. As I sit here I'm trying to think of
the best way to remap all MIDI notes and I'm not sure how I'd approach
that. I've never seen a lookup table in Reaktor and I'm not sure I'd
want to fiddle with 127 knobs. :)

--
wm

>From: "shreeswifty" <ppagano@bellsouth.net>
>
>Bill can you send me a reaktor patch so i can see the tuning??
>cheers

I've put my detwelvulation of the Uranus ensemble up at
ftp://ftp.biostat.wisc.edu/pub/annis/Uranus-micro.ens . This was
created on a Mac and I don't know if that's going to cause any
problems for PC users, especially since I know I have use a magic
little program when I want to take an ensemble from the n-i.de user
area.

Anyway, this is the Uranus ensemble with the tuning adjusted.
Since most of these more complex ensembles use a number of oscilator
units you have to make sure you find *every* place the NotePitch MIDI
unit is. This can take a while. You must also remember to hunt down
all the filter pitch inputs, too, since they need the NotePitch info,
too. Needless to say, retrofiting an existing synth can be a pain
since you often need to add new terminals to structures so you can
shove in the altered pitch from the Microtune12 (or whatever) retuning
macro.

This ensemble contains most of the basic factory snapshots,
but I've added several retunings of some of the swooshier pad sounds,
and there are a few sonic abominations of my own. The retuned
snapshots are indicated with the suffix "Centaur" or "Centaur11",
where Centaur is the tuning on the Anaphorian Embassy's web site:

1/1 21/20 9/8 7/6 5/4 4/3 7/5 3/2 14/9 5/3 7/4 15/8 2/1

and Centaur11 is this:

1/1 11/10 9/8 7/6 5/4 4/3 11/8 3/2 33/20 5/3 7/4 15/8 2/1

Now, this use of snapshots just for tuning adjustments irritates me,
since it *should* be possible to turn the retuning macros into
separate "instruments" which would allow separate snapshots for
tunings and synth settings. I've tried this several times but haven't
managed to get it to work. It's not so great an inconvenience that I
care to spend much of my musical time on the problem.

As an aside, "Bill" is -- confusingly -- my stepfather. :) I
go by the full, stuffy William or Will.

--
wm

"William S. Annis" wrote:
>
> >From: "shreeswifty" <ppagano@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >Bill can you send me a reaktor patch so i can see the tuning??
> >cheers
>
> I've put my detwelvulation of the Uranus ensemble up at
> ftp://ftp.biostat.wisc.edu/pub/annis/Uranus-micro.ens . This was
> created on a Mac and I don't know if that's going to cause any
> problems for PC users, especially since I know I have use a magic
> little program when I want to take an ensemble from the n-i.de user
> area.

Could you double check that link? I get an error message,
Netscape is unable to find the directory or file.

thanks,
db

--
* D a v i d B e a r d s l e y
* 49/32 R a d i o "all microtonal, all the time"
* http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm

>> I've put my detwelvulation of the Uranus ensemble up at
>> ftp://ftp.biostat.wisc.edu/pub/annis/Uranus-micro.ens . This was
>> created on a Mac and I don't know if that's going to cause any
>> problems for PC users, especially since I know I have use a magic
>> little program when I want to take an ensemble from the n-i.de user
>> area.
>
>Could you double check that link? I get an error message,
>Netscape is unable to find the directory or file.

Ack! Very sorry... single typo ruins the day...

ftp://ftp.biostat.wisc.edu/pub/annis/Uranus-Micro.ens
^
--
wm

Ok i spent the day with siequencer and got my JI scale in there...
1/1 17/16 9/8 7/6 9/7 4/3 7/5 3/2 14/9 12/7 7/4

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://www.virtulink.com/immp/video/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: William S. Annis <wsannis@execpc.com>
To: <tuning@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Reaktor Microtonal Capabilities

>
> >From: "shreeswifty" <ppagano@bellsouth.net>
> >
> >Bill can you send me a reaktor patch so i can see the tuning??
> >cheers
>
> I've put my detwelvulation of the Uranus ensemble up at
> ftp://ftp.biostat.wisc.edu/pub/annis/Uranus-micro.ens . This was
> created on a Mac and I don't know if that's going to cause any
> problems for PC users, especially since I know I have use a magic
> little program when I want to take an ensemble from the n-i.de user
> area.
>
> Anyway, this is the Uranus ensemble with the tuning adjusted.
> Since most of these more complex ensembles use a number of oscilator
> units you have to make sure you find *every* place the NotePitch MIDI
> unit is. This can take a while. You must also remember to hunt down
> all the filter pitch inputs, too, since they need the NotePitch info,
> too. Needless to say, retrofiting an existing synth can be a pain
> since you often need to add new terminals to structures so you can
> shove in the altered pitch from the Microtune12 (or whatever) retuning
> macro.
>
> This ensemble contains most of the basic factory snapshots,
> but I've added several retunings of some of the swooshier pad sounds,
> and there are a few sonic abominations of my own. The retuned
> snapshots are indicated with the suffix "Centaur" or "Centaur11",
> where Centaur is the tuning on the Anaphorian Embassy's web site:
>
> 1/1 21/20 9/8 7/6 5/4 4/3 7/5 3/2 14/9 5/3 7/4 15/8 2/1
>
> and Centaur11 is this:
>
> 1/1 11/10 9/8 7/6 5/4 4/3 11/8 3/2 33/20 5/3 7/4 15/8 2/1
>
> Now, this use of snapshots just for tuning adjustments irritates me,
> since it *should* be possible to turn the retuning macros into
> separate "instruments" which would allow separate snapshots for
> tunings and synth settings. I've tried this several times but haven't
> managed to get it to work. It's not so great an inconvenience that I
> care to spend much of my musical time on the problem.
>
> As an aside, "Bill" is -- confusingly -- my stepfather. :) I
> go by the full, stuffy William or Will.
>
> --
> wm
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@egroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@egroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@egroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold for
the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@egroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
> tuning-normal@egroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
>
>
>

I have succeeded in building a 16 note tuning table. It could easily
be extended to include all 128 MIDI note events. It's built
completely using basic Reaktor event modules. Each tuning value is
specified internally in the form NNN.XXXXX... where NNN is the MIDI
note value and .XXXXX is the fractional part. You could use a
multiplier to change this to the format of your choice.

-Fred

Just so my day won't be a total loss, let me share with the list a discovery
that I made today. I am a devotee and practitioner of the Perl programming
language; 95 percent of the programming I do at work is in Perl these days,
so when I need to bang out some code at home, I usually do it in Perl.
Anyhow, ActiveState Perl for Windows

http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePerl/

has a module available that allows you to access the sound card more or less
directly in Windows!

THE WaveOut PACKAGE

Win32::Sound also provides a different, more powerful approach to wave audio
data with its WaveOut package. It has methods to load and then play WAV
files, with the additional feature of specifying the start and end range, so
you can play only a portion of an audio file.

Furthermore, it is possible to load arbitrary binary data to the soundcard
to let it play and save them back into WAV files; in a few words, you can do
some sound synthesis work.
--
M. Edward Borasky
mailto:znmeb@teleport.com
http://www.borasky-research.com

Bill could not open it could you just do a screen grab of the structure for
me??
how do you map the microtune12 from uranus to the outs??

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://www.virtulink.com/immp/video/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: William S. Annis <wsannis@execpc.com>
To: <tuning@egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [tuning] Reaktor Microtonal Capabilities

>
> >> I've put my detwelvulation of the Uranus ensemble up at
> >> ftp://ftp.biostat.wisc.edu/pub/annis/Uranus-micro.ens . This was
> >> created on a Mac and I don't know if that's going to cause any
> >> problems for PC users, especially since I know I have use a magic
> >> little program when I want to take an ensemble from the n-i.de user
> >> area.
> >
> >Could you double check that link? I get an error message,
> >Netscape is unable to find the directory or file.
>
> Ack! Very sorry... single typo ruins the day...
>
> ftp://ftp.biostat.wisc.edu/pub/annis/Uranus-Micro.ens
> ^
> --
> wm
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@egroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@egroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@egroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold for
the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@egroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
> tuning-normal@egroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
>
>
>

> >Do any of you know for sure that the Mac version of Reaktor (a
> >software synthesizer) supports completely arbitrary tuning tables
> >(that is, any MIDI note may be tuned to any pitch irrelevant of how
> >any other MIDI note is tuned)?
>
> What I think you described was the ability to define 12-tone-per-octave
tunings wherein none
> of the notes differs from 12TET by more than a quartertone. What I'm
looking for is
> vaaaaaaasstly less limited than that: The retunability of an Ensoniq
ASR-10, Emu Morpheus,
> Yamaha TG-77, and others: The ability to:
>
> 1. Define MIDI note 0 to any arbitrary frequency within the audio
frequency range, then
> 2. tune MIDI note 1 to any other arbitrary frequency within the audio
frequency range, then
> 3. set MIDI note 2 to any other arbitrary frequency within the audio
frequency range, and
> 4. so forth all the way up to MIDI note number 127, each such arbitrary
frequency being
> entirely independent of the frequencies I chose for any of the other
MIDI notes.
>
> I could possibly settle with a full-MIDI-range (128-pitch) table wherein
each note has to be
> higher than or the same pitch as the next lower note. That would preclude
me using the octave
> keys of my WX-11 as a quartersharp sort of thing, but I can live with that
if I need to. I
> could also deal with something of that nature that requires that the
pattern repeat itself as
> you move up in pitch, provided that the pattern is not required to repeat
in octaves or have
> 12 pitches in the pattern.
>

You can do this, but you'll have to create your own macro to do it.
Reaktor's macro only tunes 12 note per octave scales. My own macro tunes
equal tempered scales. I've wanted to create the arbitrary scale macro
myself, but have just not gotten around to it.

You'll also need to modify almost any instrument provided by Reaktor to
accomodate your tuning tables. Look for my Octave Cat SRM version 2
ensemble, it will accept a pitch input for microtuning.

> Just as an aside one of the intriguing possibilities of Reaktor for JI
that
> has occurred to me is the possiblity of building the ratio frequencies
> directly using the built in multiplication and division modules and then
> converting them to a logarithmic value using Reaktor's conversion module.
> Because Reaktor contains an impressive array of switching and logic
modules
> you could even switch ratios in and out of the calculation logic under
MIDI
> control.
>

That sounds very interesting. Let me know how it works.

> Please keep us all posted. I've never myself wanted to tune
> C# differently in different octaves, so I didn't consider that
> possibility in my answer Gary. As I sit here I'm trying to think of
> the best way to remap all MIDI notes and I'm not sure how I'd approach
> that. I've never seen a lookup table in Reaktor and I'm not sure I'd
> want to fiddle with 127 knobs. :)
>

It will actually be 127 knobs for notes, 127 knobs for cents, 127 more knobs
if you want 1/100th of cents resolution, etc. However, once you set the
tuning and create or modify the instruments to accept it, things will go
much smoother.

> Now, this use of snapshots just for tuning adjustments irritates me,
> since it *should* be possible to turn the retuning macros into
> separate "instruments" which would allow separate snapshots for
> tunings and synth settings. I've tried this several times but haven't
> managed to get it to work. It's not so great an inconvenience that I
> care to spend much of my musical time on the problem.
>

Reaktor's own microtune instrument works this way, so I don't see why this
can't work.

John Loffink
microtonal@worldnet.att.net
The Microtonal Synthesis Web Site
http://home.att.net/~microtonal

Microtonal (John Loffink) said,
<snip>
<<
It will actually be 127 knobs for notes, 127 knobs for cents, 127
more knobs if you want 1/100th of cents resolution, etc. However,
once you set the tuning and create or modify the instruments to
accept it, things will go much smoother.
>>
<snip>
Actually I use constants instead of knobs or faders which are as
accurate as I like and take no panel space.

-Fred

Shree,

>Ok i spent the day with siequencer and got my JI scale in there...
>1/1 17/16 9/8 7/6 9/7 4/3 7/5 3/2 14/9 12/7 7/4

Can you tell us more about this scale? How did you arrive at it?
How do you use it (any of the stuff on the Tuning Punks)? Have
you ever put it on a keyboard, or do you just use it in MIDI land?

-Carl

Yes i have tuned it on the CATGUT
but recently we (Darren David and I) replaced 17/13 and 17/14 in the 4th
territory
the tuning punks stuff is pure 7 limit
cheers

Pat Pagano, Director
South East Just Intonation Society
http://www.virtulink.com/immp/video/
http://www.screwmusicforever.com/SHREESWIFT/
----- Original Message -----
From: Carl Lumma <CLUMMA@NNI.COM>
To: <tuning@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 10:32 AM
Subject: [tuning] Re: Reaktor Microtonal Capabilities

> Shree,
>
> >Ok i spent the day with siequencer and got my JI scale in there...
> >1/1 17/16 9/8 7/6 9/7 4/3 7/5 3/2 14/9 12/7 7/4
>
> Can you tell us more about this scale? How did you arrive at it?
> How do you use it (any of the stuff on the Tuning Punks)? Have
> you ever put it on a keyboard, or do you just use it in MIDI land?
>
> -Carl
>
>
>
> You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
> email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@egroups.com - join the tuning group.
> tuning-unsubscribe@egroups.com - unsubscribe from the tuning group.
> tuning-nomail@egroups.com - put your email message delivery on hold for
the tuning group.
> tuning-digest@egroups.com - change your subscription to daily digest
mode.
> tuning-normal@egroups.com - change your subscription to individual
emails.
>
>
>