How do YOU compose in X tuning

Instead of going into a tirade about wonderring
why I must subscribe to three lists to see
discussions on tuning and microtonality, I'll
start a (possibly) non-math thread.

How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
tuning materials for composition or improvisation.

The most illuminating glimpse into the topic
lately was the brief exchange between Neil and
Paul regarding 34tet, 'playing with the comma'.
As a guitarist, I can understand how one could
go about a lot of investigations of a specific
tuning with a microtonal guitar.

How does someone go about doing an etude in
'all EDOs from 5 to 53'? Or working with
a various just pitch sets with between 20
and 40 pitches per octave?

Building and/or tuning instruments
and/or using tuning tables and seeing the
'12-of-N' seems like an impossible
way to get a clear enough aural image of
your resources such that you can freely
invent (imagine) the music you can make.

I know someone will say that the lattices and
math help make the relationships clearer, and
since thats all I have at the moment, I'll
be happy to believe them. But how did McLaren
or Blackwood spend enough time hearing some
of the tunings they worked with to get so that
they could compose in them?

Bob Valentine

>From: Robert C Valentine <BVAL@IIL.INTEL.COM>
>
>How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
>tuning materials for composition or improvisation.

With much irritation to the neighbors, who also have to put up
with lengthy concerts by Oum Kolthoum (Egyptian singer, classical
Arabic style, so popular more people went to her funeral shut down
Cairo).

>The most illuminating glimpse into the topic
>lately was the brief exchange between Neil and
>Paul regarding 34tet, 'playing with the comma'.
>As a guitarist, I can understand how one could
>go about a lot of investigations of a specific
>tuning with a microtonal guitar.

I agree. I've started to fantasize about a 22tet guitar.

>How does someone go about doing an etude in
>'all EDOs from 5 to 53'? Or working with
>a various just pitch sets with between 20
>and 40 pitches per octave?

I don't. My brains can't manage that just yet.

>Building and/or tuning instruments
>and/or using tuning tables and seeing the
>'12-of-N' seems like an impossible
>way to get a clear enough aural image of
>your resources such that you can freely
>invent (imagine) the music you can make.

Well, in some ways this is true. However, my own feeble
mental capabilities require some limit to the sonic palate or I
quickly get overwhelmed. It's also relevent that my own interest in
microtonalism is due to an extensive exposure to Arabic and Turkish
classical and pop music. I tend to think in terms of modes, and I
develop this modal thinking in a quite self-conscious way when I'm
playing with a tuning system I'm wanting to turn into a song or five.
Thus, "The Divisions of the Tetrachord" has been a constant companion
for almost a year now. Anyway, here's a rough outline of how I
proceeded when I decided I wanted to add a little 11-flavor to what I
was doing, mostly to get some of the neutral intervals so popular in
middle-eastern and central-asian musics:

First, I *started* with a system I had some previous exposure
to, the so-called Centaur tuning you can find at the Anaphorian
Embassy's web site (http://www.anaphoria.com/centaur.html - gifs).
This is a nice 12-of-N mapping for people just starting to push
themselves beyond the 5-limit into 7. I still prefered to keep most
of the tuning intact, again, to ease my way, so I fiddled with Db/C#
until I got a nice netral second (several options are available) and
then I built a major scale on top of that, which displaced F# and Ab.

At this point I run off to my Python library boringly called
Ratio (http://www.execpc.com/~wsannis/ratio.html), and make use of
some new features not yet made public. First, I dump the 12-of-N
tuning out into offset-from-12tet so I can go wrangle one of my
software synths into the correct tuning. Also, I have code which will
print out a full table of all the inter-note ratios which can be
enlightening and finally I run some routines which run through the
system looking for known chords of 3 and 4 notes. These get scribbled
out on a notecard which is set up in my line of sight next to the
monitor. *The notecard is often ignored*!

Once I get a synth retuned, I just start dorking around. This
may take weeks. :) However, I spend most of the initial time working
out the melodic possibilities of a scale. In particular I choose
7-of-12 subsets for modes and work out cadential patterns I like and
think sound convincing, certain note relationships I think are
interesting and otherwise just try to internalize the possibilities of
system. Finally, I experiment with taking melodies and "transposing"
them between different modes. Sometimes this works, often it does
not.

Finally, I start playing more systematically with the harmonic
possibilities of a system, especially the 7-of-12 systems. This is
where that notecard sometimes comes in handy, though of course I'm
perfectly happy to try things not on that card, as I discovered about
a month ago when I discovered I accepted a wolf fifth as acceptable
when used to build a "major" chord, or at least something much like
one. I tend to think more in terms of counterpoint, so I have this
obsession in keeping the outer voices (bass and soprano) of
multi-voice passages in whatever mode I've chosen, though I'll let the
middle voices go where they want to get strong harmonic patterns. At
this point there is going to be some serious tension between the
melodic cadential (sp?) figures and the harmonic possibilities of a
system. For example, I really like to descend by a half-step (for
various values of half-step) to the tonic of a mode. Interesting,
wild things happen as I try to make these two competing goals work
together.

Finally, I have various stylistic things to fall back on to
help me organize what I'm doing. I'm a huge fan of various forms of
electronica... dance music basically, though a number of artists have
moved well beyond anything remotely danceable. So, I play with time
varying timbre via filters a lot, which can have quite an impact on
how a tuning is perceived for tolerably obvious reasons. Also, I will
adopt various Industrial tricks, in particular those of Haujobb/Daniel
Myer who has this fascinating habit of taking small (4-8 bar)
melodic/sound "cells" and playing them off each other as the song
develops. As has been noted elsewhere on this list, in particular by
Margo Schulter, context is incredibly important. I've found this
technique *very* productive and I end up with more adventurous
harmonies that I would otherwise, since I tend to be fairly
conservative in that regard when noodling around on an instrument. So
for me, composition is, with apologies to Edison, 2% inspiration and
98% serendipity, a sonic voyage of discovery with my songs little
intonational travelogs.

I'm not sure how helpful this is. My main point is that I
think that if you're just starting out in microtonality you should
perhaps start with the 12-of-N sets just to get a handle on some basic
realtionships first. Some composers can handle huge pitch sets and
can negotiate the quantum realm of the comma effectively, but I assume
most of them have been at this a bit longer than me. :) However, I
think the tuning charts and the text for Kyle Gann's music are also an
instructive approach to choosing your pitches when you go beyond 12
(http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/complist.html), in particular
http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/Custune2.html. I'm not ready to make
that step yet, and may never given my own musical preferences.

--
wm

Bob Valentine wrote,

>But how did McLaren
>or Blackwood spend enough time hearing some
>of the tunings they worked with to get so that
>they could compose in them?

Someone just posted on Blackwood's process a few days ago -- check the
archives.

> How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
> tuning materials for composition or improvisation.

I've always been interested in this question, too.

I use Scala (or hand-cranking) to do a full-keyboard tuning on the TX81Z (or whatever), then sit at a keyboard and improvise with it, trying out the different intervals and melodic steps.

I almost never tune in "N of M" -- for example, in 19 tET, I don't typically choose 12 of 19, I would tune all 19 notes. Fingering is "messy" and the keyboard range is more restricted octave-wise; but I usually don't play the stuff I write -- I input it for computer playing.

When I do use 12 of N, for example in 17 tET or 19tET, it's for the purpose of playing (or writing) something that is intended to be "diatonic" in the normal Western musical sense.

Rick

Personally, I found it indispensible to have all the pitches of 22-tET
available to me, either on keyboard or guitar. The keyboard layout I
recommend in my paper (skipping the Es) maps two keyboard octaves to one
acoustical octave, so I was really happy to get my 88-key controller, giving
me just over 3 1/2 octaves. On my 7-string guitar, I have almost 4 1/2
octaves. I can play a lot of chords on the guitar that I could never play on
that keyboard mapping -- and vice versa. Nonetheless, both interfaces are
very logical (to me) and it's not hard to find a lot of good ideas by just
noodling around on either -- since it's an ET, any intervals you start an
idea with will always be available from any given note, so extending ideas
generally comes easily (unless you're tied to diatonic preconceptions of how
chords will connect . . .).

--- In tuning@egroups.com, rmcgowan@a... wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/13743

> > How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
> > tuning materials for composition or improvisation.
>
> I've always been interested in this question, too.
>
> I use Scala (or hand-cranking) to do a full-keyboard tuning on the
TX81Z (or whatever), then sit at a keyboard and improvise with it,
trying out the different intervals and melodic steps.
>
> I almost never tune in "N of M" -- for example, in 19 tET, I don't
typically choose 12 of 19, I would tune all 19 notes. Fingering is
"messy" and the keyboard range is more restricted octave-wise; but I
usually don't play the stuff I write -- I input it for computer
playing.
>
> When I do use 12 of N, for example in 17 tET or 19tET, it's for the
purpose of playing (or writing) something that is intended to be
"diatonic" in the normal Western musical sense.
>
> Rick

I was working almost *exactly* like that, too. HOWEVER, now that I
have GRAHAM BREED'S MIDI RELAY... TA..DAH... I don't *HAVE* to tune
up the TX81Z anymore to try new scales.

The relay works BOTH with my soundcard and with the TX81Z.

I'm not really interested in trying to use a sequencer with the Midi
Relay. For one thing, the Midi Relay is not *multi timbral* and also
the "Midi Yoke" that Graham recommends to link the sequencer with the
Midi Relay is so very tied on a "lower level" to Windows that I fear
I
will mess up my other software...

The TX81Z is MUCH better for such work, once the scale or scales are
selected.

I'm still using the "standard" 8 plus 5 keyboard, although Joel
Mandelbaum is "threatening" to purchase one of the Bosanquet
Starrboards... He was even threatening to leave it at my place to
use with Scala... but I think it will be at some school so that
everybody can use it.

I'm not certain how a Bosanquet would change my thinking...or if it
would... I never have tried to play one. Again, my mind is open.

For me... I still "translate" whatever I come up with into a
"standard notation" using quartertones and cents. No using 72-tET as
of yet... but it's certainly something to think about... nor do I use
any kind of "comma" notation.

Wonderful new worlds, I believe... and well worth any time it takes
to learn and explore them!
_____________ ____ ____ ___ __
Joseph Pehrson

I just got a CD which may be of interest to some of you folks. It's called
"Looking to the East" and contains reissues of a number of pieces with
Asian and Middle Eastern themes:

Lou Harrison: Suite for Violin, Piano and Small Orchestra
Henry Cowell: Homage to Iran
Colin McPhee: Nocturne for Chamber Orchestra
Alan Hovhaness: Koke Non Niwa, The Holy City, Tryptich

The label is Composers Recordings, Inc. CRI CD 836. Amazon has it; it was
flagged on my Hovhaness alert :-). Leopold Stokowski is the conductor on
the Harrison piece.
--
znmeb@teleport.com (M. Edward Borasky) http://www.teleport.com/~znmeb

If they named a street after Picabo Street, would it be called Picabo
Street, Street Street or Picabo Street Street?

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Robert C Valentine <BVAL@I...> wrote:
> How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
> tuning materials for composition or improvisation.

My current music-making involves a Roland Handsonic and a Line 6 DL4
Delay/Loop pedal. Using the DL4's 14-second loop sampler feature, I
build up audio loops of percussion through continuous overdubs. The
tuned percussion sounds that I have been using are the Indonesian
gongs, which I have left in their preset tunings (they are not tuned
to 12t-ET notes as I determined from their cents settings). Into the
DL4's other pedal I have plugged in my fretless guitar, which mostly
contributes overdubs of simple phrases. I don't choose specific
pitches, but instead use my ear to bring the notes to pitches that
fit with what is already there. Once I decide on a preamp to go with
my cheap vocal mic, I will start looping my Maui Xaphoon and 12" Tar
as well.

It's all improvised. I overdub tuned percussion first so I have
tonics against which I can work my fretless guitar. The next thing I
plan to do is select a more harmonically simple sound and tune that
to a JI scale.

Paolo

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <pehrson@p...> wrote:
> http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/13745
>
> I'm still using the "standard" 8 plus 5 keyboard, although Joel
> Mandelbaum is "threatening" to purchase one of the Bosanquet
> Starrboards... He was even threatening to leave it at my place
> to use with Scala... but I think it will be at some school so
> that everybody can use it.

Hmmm... I sure wish Joel offered to leave it at *my* place!
(but I think he'd never get it back!...)

>
> I'm not certain how a Bosanquet would change my thinking...
> or if it would...

It would. Trust me on this one.

I've been leaving messages for Harvey Starr all week, in hopes
of getting over there and playing the MicroZone again. No
calls returned yet...

-monz
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html

> HOWEVER, now that I
> have GRAHAM BREED'S MIDI RELAY... TA..DAH... I don't *HAVE* to tune
> up the TX81Z anymore to try new scales.

Uh, I must have missed where to get it and what's cool about it? How can one use it to try new scales without tuning the TX81Z? I used John DL's JIRelay program; is Graham's program like that?

I usually use a sequencer... well Finale actually. Need multi-timbral output eventually.

Rick

> How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
> tuning materials for composition or improvisation.

I know that this is a hot topic in the music theory world now. There are a
few recent articles in which the theory of scales, harmonic progressions,
and set-theory are expanded into the microtonal world. I could post a short
bibliography if anyone would like.

There are many different approaches that one can make. I would look at my
scale and determine the consonant intervals and the dissonant intervals. I
would get a sense of the 'chromatic motion' or the coloring of each key or
mode in any UT. Dealing with UT's is much more difficult than dealing with
ET, obviously. I don't think that many of us could conceive of microtonal
music in our heads completely, so we have to find ideas and concepts that we
can discover and develop. Of course, the easiest escape would be to go the
route of indeterminacy or serialism. I like to think of everything that I
do in a different tuning is just an extension or modification of the same
things that I would do in 12ET, just with more possibilities, which is what
makes it much, much, harder to work with.

Steven Kallstrom

Steven Kallstrom wrote,

>There are a
>few recent articles in which the theory of scales, harmonic progressions,
>and set-theory are expanded into the microtonal world. I could post a
short
>bibliography if anyone would like.

Yes please. I hope my 22-tET paper from Xenharmonikon 17 would be included
in such a bibliography?

>How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
>tuning materials for composition or improvisation.

Not an easy thing to explain,but i�ll try.

So far what i�ve done is used the piano roll mode in Cakewalk,going through Midi Relay set to various equal tunings.Eventually after trying the different intervals available in a tuning,i get the feel for different pitch sets.Often i draw up a scale(i�ve had a quasi-diatonic phase,a genus phase and a MOS phase so far)and play it up and down using the draggable player-line feature,developing some basic themes.Eventually these things are"digested"by me mentally while not actually working with the sequencer.

How i actually compose music with this(IMO rather primitive)approach differs from occasions-sometimes i just elaborate around a few distinctive chords in the tunings,other are more conventionally developmental-although based on the sounds and features of the specific tuning.

I�ve also started using irregular 12-note tunings,usually just intonation,which i can play and develop music in using a Midi keyboard.I find it totally absurd to play any non-12 note tunings on the regular keyboard,although i�m very interested in alternate keyboard layouts.To help learning the features of the set,i create a map like this:

G D A

Eb B F

Bb E C

F# C# Ab

Which tells what pitches go to which keys.This particular one was Genus Enharmonicum Vocale(33 5 7),discarding the septimal comma.

����������������������������������������������������������������������
Mats �ljare
Eskilstuna,Sweden
http://www.angelfire.com/mo/oljare
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Robert C Valentine wrote:

> How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
> tuning materials for composition or improvisation.

What a coincidence. Over at the other list, they are discussing rhythm/pitch relationships in
composition to which I have added my tuppenceworth. My two basic premises have always been to
simplify resources and to learn from the past. I've just resurrected one of my JI pieces
called Just Vespers which uses a very simple but beautiful mode, Ptolemy's Malakon Diatonic.
This goes 1/1 21/20 7/6 4/3 3/2 63/40 7/4 2/1. I used JI Calc to send it to my
sampler, an ASR - 10. I benefit from singing the scale as much as possible which is what I
did for about a week. This helps to internalise the resources of the scale, which to my ears
is Phrygian but with a gorgeous longing in the septimal ratios. At the time I messed around
with the maths to see if I could 'prove' which pitch combinations were consonant but only came
up with a page of numbers that I couldn't interpret. I'd do much better now thanks to the help
on offer from the experts on this list.

I wanted to do a choral setting of psalm 113 but decided that there would be little chance of
a performance in the 'Just
Desert' of Edinburgh, so I decided on three voices and chose harp, organ and marimba samples,
all feasibly JI instruments in the real world. The rest is 'history'. I wrote out the verses
and decided on a highly structured and historically authentic sequence of verses, antiphons,
a doxology and Benedicam Domino to finish.

The verses use the medieval technique of breaking down sections of the chant into intonation,
reciting tone, mediant and termination, which is again highly structured and pans out much
like a set of theme and variations. I harmonised the melodies using various forms of organum
(similar to those described by Margo Schulter in her most recent post) and with simple two
part counterpoint. Then I let in some space.

So the singability of the scale determined the choice of subject matter and its subsequent
musical treatment. For the antiphonal sections I chose to adapt a beautiful Ukrainian Orthodox
chant "Plotiju usnuw", traditionally sang on Easter -eve. The chant is originally in the
aeolian mode but gains immeasurably from the flattened 2nd and septimal ratios of the Malakon
Diatonic.

With simple counterpoint, drones and the 'anchor' of the minor triad, the consonances and
dissonances of the scale come alive. Once I've eq'd it and added reverb I'll try to put it up
on my forthcoming page as an mp3. And as it is all sequenced in Cubase, it should be easy
enough to score out in a fairly conventional manner. Then to a performance - if only!

At the moment I'm working on some 22-tet guitar studies, details of which I hope to share in
the future. And finally I'm looking at some of my early Cage-ian pieces inspired by bar codes.
If your Muse has temporarily deserted you, these ubiquitous little printouts contain a lot of
suggestive textural and numerical information for the experimental JI composer. Are those
prime limits I see along the bottom?

Peace to All

Robert C Valentine wrote:

> How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
> tuning materials for composition or improvisation.

What a coincidence. Over at the other list, they are discussing rhythm/pitch relationships in
composition to which I have added my tuppenceworth. My two basic premises have always been to
simplify resources and to learn from the past. I've just resurrected one of my JI pieces
called Just Vespers which uses a very simple but beautiful mode, Ptolemy's Malakon Diatonic.
This goes 1/1 21/20 7/6 4/3 3/2 63/40 7/4 2/1. I used JI Calc to send it to my
sampler, an ASR - 10. I benefit from singing the scale as much as possible which is what I
did for about a week. This helps to internalise the resources of the scale, which to my ears
is Phrygian but with a gorgeous longing in the septimal ratios. At the time I messed around
with the maths to see if I could 'prove' which pitch combinations were consonant but only came
up with a page of numbers that I couldn't interpret. I'd do much better now thanks to the help
on offer from the experts on this list.

I wanted to do a choral setting of psalm 113 but decided that there would be little chance of
a performance in the 'Just
Desert' of Edinburgh, so I decided on three voices and chose harp, organ and marimba samples,
all feasibly JI instruments in the real world. The rest is 'history'. I wrote out the verses
and decided on a highly structured and historically authentic sequence of verses, antiphons,
a doxology and Benedicam Domino to finish.

The verses use the medieval technique of breaking down sections of the chant into intonation,
reciting tone, mediant and termination, which is again highly structured and pans out much
like a set of theme and variations. I harmonised the melodies using various forms of organum
(similar to those described by Margo Schulter in her most recent post) and with simple two
part counterpoint. Then I let in some space.

So the singability of the scale determined the choice of subject matter and its subsequent
musical treatment. For the antiphonal sections I chose to adapt a beautiful Ukrainian Orthodox
chant "Plotiju usnuw", traditionally sang on Easter -eve. The chant is originally in the
aeolian mode but gains immeasurably from the flattened 2nd and septimal ratios of the Malakon
Diatonic.

With simple counterpoint, drones and the 'anchor' of the minor triad, the consonances and
dissonances of the scale come alive. Once I've eq'd it and added reverb I'll try to put it up
on my forthcoming page as an mp3. And as it is all sequenced in Cubase, it should be easy
enough to score out in a fairly conventional manner. Then to a performance - if only!

At the moment I'm working on some 22-tet guitar studies, details of which I hope to share in
the future. And finally I'm looking at some of my early Cage-ian pieces inspired by bar codes.
If your Muse has temporarily deserted you, these ubiquitous little printouts contain a lot of
suggestive textural and numerical information for the experimental JI composer. Are those
prime limits I see along the bottom?

Peace to All

Robert C Valentine wrote:

> How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
> tuning materials for composition or improvisation.

What a coincidence. Over at the other list, they are discussing rhythm/pitch relationships in
composition to which I have added my tuppenceworth. My two basic premises have always been to
simplify resources and to learn from the past. I've just resurrected one of my JI pieces
called Just Vespers which uses a very simple but beautiful mode, Ptolemy's Malakon Diatonic.
This goes 1/1 21/20 7/6 4/3 3/2 63/40 7/4 2/1. I used JI Calc to send it to my
sampler, an ASR - 10. I benefit from singing the scale as much as possible which is what I
did for about a week. This helps to internalise the resources of the scale, which to my ears
is Phrygian but with a gorgeous longing in the septimal ratios. At the time I messed around
with the maths to see if I could 'prove' which pitch combinations were consonant but only came
up with a page of numbers that I couldn't interpret. I'd do much better now thanks to the help
on offer from the experts on this list.

I wanted to do a choral setting of psalm 113 but decided that there would be little chance of
a performance in the 'Just
Desert' of Edinburgh, so I decided on three voices and chose harp, organ and marimba samples,
all feasibly JI instruments in the real world. The rest is 'history'. I wrote out the verses
and decided on a highly structured and historically authentic sequence of verses, antiphons,
a doxology and Benedicam Domino to finish.

The verses use the medieval technique of breaking down sections of the chant into intonation,
reciting tone, mediant and termination, which is again highly structured and pans out much
like a set of theme and variations. I harmonised the melodies using various forms of organum
(similar to those described by Margo Schulter in her most recent post) and with simple two
part counterpoint. Then I let in some space.

So the singability of the scale determined the choice of subject matter and its subsequent
musical treatment. For the antiphonal sections I chose to adapt a beautiful Ukrainian Orthodox
chant "Plotiju usnuw", traditionally sang on Easter -eve. The chant is originally in the
aeolian mode but gains immeasurably from the flattened 2nd and septimal ratios of the Malakon
Diatonic.

With simple counterpoint, drones and the 'anchor' of the minor triad, the consonances and
dissonances of the scale come alive. Once I've eq'd it and added reverb I'll try to put it up
on my forthcoming page as an mp3. And as it is all sequenced in Cubase, it should be easy
enough to score out in a fairly conventional manner. Then to a performance - if only!

At the moment I'm working on some 22-tet guitar studies, details of which I hope to share in
the future. And finally I'm looking at some of my early Cage-ian pieces inspired by bar codes.
If your Muse has temporarily deserted you, these ubiquitous little printouts contain a lot of
suggestive textural and numerical information for the experimental JI composer. Are those
prime limits I see along the bottom?

Peace to All

On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:14:39 +0300 (IDT), Robert C Valentine
<BVAL@IIL.INTEL.COM> wrote:

>How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
>tuning materials for composition or improvisation.

Lately I've been playing with 14-tet, using the piano roll feature of
Cakewalk, and a subset of 31-tet, using a special keyboard mapping I
described here a while back, which puts the naturals and flats on the white
keys, and sharps and double sharps on the black keys. I've been doing most
of my 15-tet compositions in Cakewalk. I occasionally also use Csound for
experimenting with scales that don't work well with either of the other two
methods.

I still have my kalimba tuned to a 7 out of 16-tet faux pelog scale.

--
see my music page ---> ---<http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/music.html>--
hmiller (Herman Miller) "If all Printers were determin'd not to print any
@io.com email password: thing till they were sure it would offend no body,
\ "Subject: teamouse" / there would be very little printed." -Ben Franklin

Alison wrote,

>I've just resurrected one of my JI pieces
>called Just Vespers which uses a very simple but beautiful mode, Ptolemy's
Malakon Diatonic.
>This goes 1/1 21/20 7/6 4/3 3/2 63/40 7/4 2/1. . . .At the
time I messed around
>with the maths to see if I could 'prove' which pitch combinations were
consonant but only came
>up with a page of numbers that I couldn't interpret.

Rather than a page of numbers, the best way to assess the consonant
resources of a scale is to draw a lattice (it's been a little while since
these have come up on the list -- let me know if you need a refresher)):

Ptolemy's Malakon Diatonic

7/6-------7/4
.' `. ,' \`.
4/3-------1/1-----\-3/2
\ |
\|
21/20-------63/40

This shows all the consonant intervals and triads at a glance.

and

>At the moment I'm working on some 22-tet guitar studies, details of which I
hope to share in
>the future.

What do you think of the Malakon Diatonic in 22-tET (0 2 5 9 13 15 18 22)?
You gain some consonant relationships, but lose some of those tangy
dissonances.

--- In tuning@egroups.com, rmcgowan@a... wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/13750

> > HOWEVER, now that I
> > have GRAHAM BREED'S MIDI RELAY... TA..DAH... I don't *HAVE* to
tune up the TX81Z anymore to try new scales.
>
> Uh, I must have missed where to get it and what's cool about it?
How can one use it to try new scales without tuning the TX81Z? I
used John DL's JIRelay program; is Graham's program like that?
>
> I usually use a sequencer... well Finale actually. Need
multi-timbral output eventually.
>
> Rick

Well, Graham Breed has an amazing tool with his MIDI RELAY!!! You
can download it from here:

http://x31eq.com/software.htm

Basically, it works with pitch bends and will play Scala files EITHER
on your soundcard OR on the TX81Z using the MIDI "out" port on your
sound card.

It's AMAZING, since it makes Scala files IMMEDIATELY AUDIBLE.

Of course, that's only a FIRST step in xenharmonic explorations...
once you've "settled" on a scale (or group of scales)... of course
you can make up your OWN using mathematical constructs in Scala as
well...

THEN you can "tune up" the TX81Z using the method you suggested to me
some time ago... including "mapping" or whatever you need.

The Graham Breed MIDI RELAY is really best as a "preliminary
investigation" since your compositions, of course, will need to be
composed on a multitimbral synth using a sequencer...

But, it's really GREAT for easy hearing and playing of Scale files!!!!

John deLaubenfels' program, I believe is exclusively for just
intonation... but I could be wrong... I haven't tried it yet...

___________ ___ __ _ _
Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Steven Kallstrom" <skallstr@s...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/13751

> > How do YOU compose, or investigate a new set of
> > tuning materials for composition or improvisation.
>
> I know that this is a hot topic in the music theory world now.
There are a few recent articles in which the theory of scales,
harmonic progressions, and set-theory are expanded into the
microtonal world. I could post a short bibliography if anyone would
like.
>

Yes! Theoreticians and EVERYBODY ELSE! The whole point is that the
"whole world" is going microtonal now... even the MAINSTREAM. Look
at even the American Music Center!

It's wild! Of course, it will disappoint people who prefer to remain
isolated and individuatl in little personal "cults." I'm not being
funny... there really are people like that..

________ ___ __ __ _ __ _
Joseph Pehrson

"Paul H. Erlich" wrote:

>
>
> Rather than a page of numbers, the best way to assess the consonant
> resources of a scale is to draw a lattice (it's been a little while since
> these have come up on the list -- let me know if you need a refresher)):
>
> Ptolemy's Malakon Diatonic
>
> 7/6-------7/4
> .' `. ,' \`.
> 4/3-------1/1-----\-3/2
> \ |
> \|
> 21/20-------63/40
>
> This shows all the consonant intervals and triads at a glance.
>

Thanks for the lattice. I'm just about up to speed with lattices and periodicity blocks. I
found your own articles and W.A. Mathieu's book to be immensely helpful. Next on my list is
Combination Product Sets and all the Erv Wilson papers. Then Harmonic Entropy (should I go
over to the other list to say this!?). I also have a friend who is trying to get a hold of the
Xenharmonicon back copies from the JI network. That only leaves all of Margo Schulter's
articles and all the links that Monz has suggested.

I feel so proficient at catching up that one day, if 'The Course' in J.I./Microtonality is
ever written, I'll design the syllabus with all the rest of the strugglers and you can fill in
the course content.

What do you think of the Malakon Diatonic in 22-tET (0 2 5 9 13 15 18 22)?
You gain some consonant relationships, but lose some of those tangy
dissonances.

What a wonderful idea. I will look at arranging 'Just Vespers' for two 22 tet guitars or for
guitar and voices.

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Alison Monteith <alison.monteith3@w...>
wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/13813

>

> I feel so proficient at catching up that one day,

Well, I'm certainly doing well... I'm on post 214 with only 13599 to
go!

___________ ____ __ _
Joseph Pehrson

Joseph,

> HOWEVER, now that I
> have GRAHAM BREED'S MIDI RELAY... TA..DAH... I don't *HAVE* to
tune up the TX81Z anymore to try new scales.
>

I wonder if you have discovered that FTS also has MIDI relaying
capabilities.

You can use FTS to play in any of the scales / modes without playing the
fractal tune.

You don't need to click the play button at all.

I wonder if you've discovered this?

To try out a scale, simply select it from the drop list. Can also enter your
own scale defs in cents / ratios.

You can use any of the SCALA modes with the scales, or make your own.

Then play from MIDI keyboard. Successive white notes play successive notes
of mode, and black notes play one of the in between notes, if any, with
various extra options to play accidentals for modes other than diatonic, or
with steps of more than two notes.

E.g. can use sustain to toggle sharps / flats when playing black keys in
modes such as diatonic in 19 tone scale.

Lot's more.

One new nice feature in this beta is that you can define custom voices. For
instance, harpsichord and clavier in unison, which could be nice for playing
early music in an authentic tuning, e.g. from time of Bach.

All you do is to tick Open from the MIDI In menu, and you are ready to start
playing from MIDI In. If that doesn't work, check you have a sensible device
selected in the In menu, and that you have Open ticked from the out menu
(should be automatically ticked first time you play a note from MIDI In).
See In | Options to configure in more detail.

As I mentioned before, you can show the drop list of SCALA scales too, and
search it by scale description, or by definition, e.g. look for all the
scales with a part. number of notes and part. intervals, or all the scales
that mention gamelan in the description ,or whatever.

Can even play in any mode in any scale from p.c. keyboard instead of MIDI
keyboard, using `,1,2,3,4,....for successive notes of mode, and option to
play mode in second row of keyboard, accidentals for the mode in 1st, 3rd,
4th, completely general to any mode in any scale, accid. meaning following /
previous note in underlying scale.

Freeware version has a limit of ten minutes playing time per session,
or one minute continuous playing at a time (choose which one wants at start
up).

Since you have registered version, that doesn't apply to you.

Robert

http://www.robertwalker.f9.co.uk/fts_beta/fts_beta_download.htm

(Min req Win 95/98 + soundcard)

(N.B. have plans for Java version eventually as mentioned on web site, but
that seems like a really long way in the future, if I ever do it at all).

--
> To try out a scale, simply select it from the drop list. Can also
enter your
> own scale defs in cents / ratios.
>
> You can use any of the SCALA modes with the scales, or make your
own.
>
> Then play from MIDI keyboard. Successive white notes play
successive
notes
> of mode, and black notes play one of the in between notes, if any,
with
> various extra options to play accidentals for modes other than
diatonic, or
> with steps of more than two notes.
<snip>
> Robert
<snip>

Cool, Robert. I will try this.

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Robert Walker" <robert_walker@r...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/13853

> Joseph,
>
> > HOWEVER, now that I
> > have GRAHAM BREED'S MIDI RELAY... TA..DAH... I don't *HAVE* to
> tune up the TX81Z anymore to try new scales.
> >
>
> I wonder if you have discovered that FTS also has MIDI relaying
> capabilities.

Thanks so much, Robert! I will try this out!

________ ___ __ __
Joseph Pehrson