Sethares is exciting stuff

No sooner had I gone through some of the exciting stuff that Ed
Borasky directed me to, and Mr. Sethares contacted me *HIMSELF.*

Someone is doing a real "fast one" here on the Tuning List.

Wow. This is really exciting stuff. I can see why Harrington is
going so *nuts* over it... but, Harrington is _already_ possibly...
well, nevermind.

Anyway... the idea of creating scales from inharmonic timbres is
quite something... I'll probably be getting the book, if it's
reasonably priced...
_________ ___ __ _
Joseph Pehrson

Joseph,

I have also been interested in getting this book as well. I
understand the basics of how this could be applied to individual
timbres, but the really big question in my mind is how can you apply
this theory to tuning multi-part music that has multiple timbres with
radically different harmonic structures. I've been curious to
understand, that if for instance you have metal instruments tuned to
optimum scales for their harmonic structure, and you have strings
tuned to their best, as well as a number of others, then how will
this all sound when it's mixed together. I've pondered if there may
be some way to apply his ideas to a sum of the overtone structures
being used - where all of the harmonic structures of the music are
considered as a whole, from which to derive a best ensemble scale.
Surely this is mainly for the electronic music domain - makes one
think that you would have to have some serious ability to analyize
timbre as well as mold new timbres electronically. Based on the mp3s
I've heard from Mr. Sethares, it can be a very beautiful sound. Of
particular interest to me was the piece all based on percussion
overtones. Very beautiful!!! (sorry can't recall the title just now).

Later,

Jacky Ligon

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Joseph Pehrson" <pehrson@p...> wrote:
> No sooner had I gone through some of the exciting stuff that Ed
> Borasky directed me to, and Mr. Sethares contacted me *HIMSELF.*
>
> Someone is doing a real "fast one" here on the Tuning List.
>
> Wow. This is really exciting stuff. I can see why Harrington is
> going so *nuts* over it... but, Harrington is _already_ possibly...
> well, nevermind.
>
> Anyway... the idea of creating scales from inharmonic timbres is
> quite something... I'll probably be getting the book, if it's
> reasonably priced...
> _________ ___ __ _
> Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Jacky Ligon" <jacky_ekstasis@y...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/13040

> Joseph,
>
> I have also been interested in getting this book as well. I
> understand the basics of how this could be applied to individual
> timbres, but the really big question in my mind is how can you
apply
> this theory to tuning multi-part music that has multiple timbres
with radically different harmonic structures. I've been curious to
> understand, that if for instance you have metal instruments tuned
to
> optimum scales for their harmonic structure, and you have strings
> tuned to their best, as well as a number of others, then how will
> this all sound when it's mixed together.

My guess would be that it would be better to feature an "inharmonic"
instrument with it's inharmonic scale... and have accompaning
instruments or electronics that would perform the same scale or
similar materials. But, I haven't tried it... so I wouldn't know.
(!!) Maybe contrasting things... even "harmonic" timbres would work
sometimes, depending..

In a way, it reminds me of what Kraig Grady is doing... although in
his case, of course, it is the "utonal" series and not something
derived from "inharmonicity." But they are both systems "fabricated"
from something other than the basic harmonic series.... Yes?? And
Grady uses *NO* electronics... well there's an airplane propeller fan
in one... so "acoustic" is possible...

Sethares has a piece on the Tuning Punks site, which I just listened
to again called "Duet for Morphine (crystals) and Cymbal.

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/72/the_tuning_punks.html

Well, this is just one of these practical fields that people
so-inclined can investigate after the more "theoretically minded"
among us do their mighty work...

Or, at least that's *MY* take on things...
____________ ___ __ __ _
Joseph Pehrson

Joseph wrote,

>In a way, it reminds me of what Kraig Grady is doing... although in
>his case, of course, it is the "utonal" series and not something
>derived from "inharmonicity."

Hmm . . . I don't thing Kraig does much work with utonal series, so much as
constant structures scales derived from CPS scales . . . but certainly in
these scales utonality is roughly "equivalent" to otonality.

>But they are both systems "fabricated"
>from something other than the basic harmonic series.... Yes??

Ironically, in Sethares' framework, the otonal and utonal series are
_equally justified_ as scales to use with the usual harmonic-series timbres.
Should I go over this again?

To my mind, Sethares focuses on sensory dissonance but ignores harmonic
entropy and therefore the basis of tonality (look at that Terhardt page
again) . . . so the music Sethares produces for inharmonic timbres will
ultimately be weird and beautiful atonality . . . not that there's anything
wrong with that.

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/13049

>
> Ironically, in Sethares' framework, the otonal and utonal series are
> _equally justified_ as scales to use with the usual harmonic-series
timbres. Should I go over this again?
>

Oh, of course, Paul. Duh. I guess I was just thinking about the
xylophone "inharmonic" example that was posted on his webpage and I
went from that kind of sound to thinking about utonality...
different, of course, from inharmonicity but BOTH different still
from the otonal harmonic series.

And, yes, it was made clear that scales would be equally constructed
with otonal materials as well, if that's what pertained in the
timbre... I'm anxious to see the book...

_________ ___ __ __ _
Joseph Pehrson

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joseph Pehrson [mailto:pehrson@pubmedia.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 1:08 PM
> To: tuning@egroups.com
> Subject: [tuning] Re: Sethares is exciting stuff
>
> > Joseph,
> >
> > I have also been interested in getting this book as well. I
> > understand the basics of how this could be applied to individual
> > timbres, but the really big question in my mind is how can you
> apply
> > this theory to tuning multi-part music that has multiple timbres
> with radically different harmonic structures. I've been curious to
> > understand, that if for instance you have metal instruments tuned
> to
> > optimum scales for their harmonic structure, and you have strings
> > tuned to their best, as well as a number of others, then how will
> > this all sound when it's mixed together.

Sethares covers exactly this process ... mixing "harmonic" and "inharmonic"
instruments.
--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky
znmeb@teleport.com
http://www.borasky-research.com/