guitars & 17-TET

We're back ! Thanks Mark.

Repost of messages that got bounced :

Hi,

First off, thought I'd mention this, in case it strikes anyone's
fancy :

Glancing through the Guitar Player Buyer's Guide at a bookstore
I noticed that French guitar maker Vigier has a production
fretless electric guitar for @$1700.

Now, 2 questions to do with my thinking of getting an el cheapo acoustic
and refretting it to 17-TET. I chose it mainly as I want more and
different notes than there are in 12-TET and 22-TET will probably be
too many frets, too close together for my sometimes clumsy fingers.

1) Are any of you using a 17-TET guitar ?
I'd like to hear about your experiences.

2) I've been going through some of the info I have to do with 17-TET
and it seems like a good thing. I also get the impression that it's
good for what I want to use it for, which is write somewhat commercial
songs.$-) Am I barking up the right tree ?

____________________________________________________________________
Deux :

Hokay, bit more about guitars & 17-TET :
I've been going through the web & the digests I have and came
up with a few leads :

Way back in TD 1418 Haverstick mentioned
>Rod Poole's 17 tone purely fretted axe
Is Rod on the list ? I'd like to know a bit about this
guitar.

Then there is Margo's excellent "Quasi-17-tet by just intonation"
A fascinating and helpful article.

She also mentions Ivor Darreg's use of 17-tet

Monzo recently mentioned :

>We also have Ivor's 17-, 22-, 24-, and 31-equal
>guitars, and I'll be adding those to the webpage
>in short order.

Hope to see it soon, Joe. Could you perhaps put up a picture ?

George Hajdu
<http://www.uni-muenster.de/Musikhochschule/Dozenten/Hajdu/Hajdu.html>
has done some work in 17-tet, as has been mentioned here before.

This book/cassette is listed on his site :
17 T�ne. A collection of compositions in 17-tone equal temperament by C. Barlow,
C.Bauckholt, G. Hajdu, C.J. Walter, and C. Wilkens. Georg Hajdu (editor).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At
<http://www.rism.harvard.edu/MusicLibrary/newbooks/August97_sco.html>
I found this reference to it :
New Scores, August 1997

17 Tone : Sammelband mit Kompositionen in siebzehnstufig-temperierter Stimmung mit
Aufnahmen auf beiliegender Musikkassette = 17 tones : collection of compositions in
17-tone tempered tuning with recordings on enclosed cassette / herausgegeben von Georg
Hajdu. Siebzehn Tone. Koln : Thurmchen Verlag, c1992. -- [HOLLIS# BBF2773]
Loeb Music: Mus 463.291 Cassette classified as C 33329.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also :

17 Tones. Proceedings of the International Computer Music Conference, (1992), 449-450.
<http://www.uni-muenster.de/Musikhochschule/Dozenten/Hajdu/Articles/17_tones.ICMC.pdf>

Low Energy and Equal Spacing; the Multifactorial Evolution of Tuning Systems.
Interface, 22, (1993), 319-333.
<http://www.uni-muenster.de/Musikhochschule/Dozenten/Hajdu/Articles/LowEnergy.pdf>

I'm looking for articles, papers, etc. that explores the
possibilities of 17-tet. Also, specific to the guitar, I'd appreciate
any pointers to how it could be strung & tuned, etc.

Cheers All,
Drew
______________________________________________________________________________

"I think the bees 'suspect' something."
- Winnie the Pooh

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Drew Skyfyre <skyfyre@usa.net>

"It irritates me that neither Lycurgus nor Plato had any
knowledge of them,...
How remote from such perfection would Plato find that
Republic which he thought up
'viri a diis recentes' (men fresh from the gods)."

-Michel de Montaigne (1533-1592), "On the Cannibals",an essay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Drew

If you wanted to carry through the conventional open string configuration of
+4th +4th+ 4th+3rd+4th in 17 EDO* you would first have to decide what pitch
you wanted to call home (i.e. your �1/1� reference pitch). While this is
obviously your decision to make (most chromatic cents examples are rendered
C - C�) I�m going to suppose that that �1/1� reference pitch will be a
common guitar like choice such as A (and that we�re calling the 5th string
the A string).

As a +4th = +7/17ths of an octave in 17 EDO; 7/17ths of an octave would
equal the 7th fret of your A string� so:

A = 0/17 (+ 7th fret = )
D = 7/17(+ 7th fret = )
G = 14/17

and assuming that we�re calling 6/17ths of an octave (at 423.9/17 cents) a
major third (opposed to a 5/17ths at 352.16/17 cents) then:

G = 14/17(+ 6th fret = )
B = 3/17 (+ 7th fret = )
E = 10/17

To tune the low E (6th string) you would fret the 10th fret of the A (5th
string) and tune your open low E string to it (an octave lower, as opposed
to a unison).

All this should lead to an open string subset of 17 EDO that �looks like� A
@ 0 cents, D @ 494 and 2/17 cents, G @ 988 and 4/17 cents, B @ 1411 and
13/17 cents, E @ 1905 and 15/17 cents, and finally going back and tuning the
low E down a 17 EDO fifth to -705 and 15/17 cents.

E = 706
A = 0
D = 494
G = 988
B = 212
E = 706

Hopefully I�m not just repeating something you already knew?

Respectfully,
D�Stearns

*As far as acronyms go, {E}quidistant {D}ivision of the {O}ctave�s� EDO,
certainly seems (to me) a rather colorless creation (immanently indisposed
as it is to the oddly resonant charm of {T}one {E}qual {T}emperament�s�TET),
but I do believe it 'better says' what (I believe) 'needs saying'� and as
such I feel somewhat obligated to continue to pretend I like it (and
apologize for saying so).

-----Original Message-----
From: Drew Skyfyre <skyfyre@usa.net>
To: Tuning list <tuning@onelist.com>
Date: Monday, December 28, 1998 2:52 PM
Subject: [tuning] guitars & 17-TET

>From: Drew Skyfyre <skyfyre@usa.net>
>
>We're back ! Thanks Mark.
>
>Repost of messages that got bounced :
>
>Hi,
>
>First off, thought I'd mention this, in case it strikes anyone's
>fancy :
>
>Glancing through the Guitar Player Buyer's Guide at a bookstore
>I noticed that French guitar maker Vigier has a production
>fretless electric guitar for @$1700.
>
>
>Now, 2 questions to do with my thinking of getting an el cheapo acoustic
>and refretting it to 17-TET. I chose it mainly as I want more and
>different notes than there are in 12-TET and 22-TET will probably be
>too many frets, too close together for my sometimes clumsy fingers.
>
>1) Are any of you using a 17-TET guitar ?
> I'd like to hear about your experiences.
>
>2) I've been going through some of the info I have to do with 17-TET
> and it seems like a good thing. I also get the impression that it's
> good for what I want to use it for, which is write somewhat commercial
> songs.$-) Am I barking up the right tree ?
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Deux :
>
>Hokay, bit more about guitars & 17-TET :
>I've been going through the web & the digests I have and came
>up with a few leads :
>
>Way back in TD 1418 Haverstick mentioned
>>Rod Poole's 17 tone purely fretted axe
>Is Rod on the list ? I'd like to know a bit about this
>guitar.
>
>Then there is Margo's excellent "Quasi-17-tet by just intonation"
>A fascinating and helpful article.
>
>She also mentions Ivor Darreg's use of 17-tet
>
>Monzo recently mentioned :
>
>>We also have Ivor's 17-, 22-, 24-, and 31-equal
>>guitars, and I'll be adding those to the webpage
>>in short order.
>
>Hope to see it soon, Joe. Could you perhaps put up a picture ?
>
>George Hajdu
><http://www.uni-muenster.de/Musikhochschule/Dozenten/Hajdu/Hajdu.html>
>has done some work in 17-tet, as has been mentioned here before.
>
>This book/cassette is listed on his site :
>17 T�ne. A collection of compositions in 17-tone equal temperament by C.
Barlow,
>C.Bauckholt, G. Hajdu, C.J. Walter, and C. Wilkens. Georg Hajdu (editor).
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>At
><http://www.rism.harvard.edu/MusicLibrary/newbooks/August97_sco.html>
>I found this reference to it :
>New Scores, August 1997
>
>17 Tone : Sammelband mit Kompositionen in siebzehnstufig-temperierter
Stimmung mit
>Aufnahmen auf beiliegender Musikkassette = 17 tones : collection of
compositions in
>17-tone tempered tuning with recordings on enclosed cassette /
herausgegeben von Georg
>Hajdu. Siebzehn Tone. Koln : Thurmchen Verlag, c1992. -- [HOLLIS# BBF2773]
>Loeb Music: Mus 463.291 Cassette classified as C 33329.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
>Also :
>
>17 Tones. Proceedings of the International Computer Music Conference,
(1992), 449-450.
><http://www.uni-muenster.de/Musikhochschule/Dozenten/Hajdu/Articles/17_tone
s.ICMC.pdf>
>
>Low Energy and Equal Spacing; the Multifactorial Evolution of Tuning
Systems.
>Interface, 22, (1993), 319-333.
><http://www.uni-muenster.de/Musikhochschule/Dozenten/Hajdu/Articles/LowEner
gy.pdf>
>
>I'm looking for articles, papers, etc. that explores the
>possibilities of 17-tet. Also, specific to the guitar, I'd appreciate
>any pointers to how it could be strung & tuned, etc.
>
>
>Cheers All,
>Drew
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>
>"I think the bees 'suspect' something."
>- Winnie the Pooh
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>Drew Skyfyre <skyfyre@usa.net>
>
>"It irritates me that neither Lycurgus nor Plato had any
>knowledge of them,...
>How remote from such perfection would Plato find that
>Republic which he thought up
>'viri a diis recentes' (men fresh from the gods)."
>
>-Michel de Montaigne (1533-1592), "On the Cannibals",an essay.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
>to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
>select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>You do not need web access to participate. You may subscribe through
>email. Send an empty email to one of these addresses:
> tuning-subscribe@onelist.com - subscribe to the tuning list.
> tuning-unsubscribe@onelist.com - unsubscribe from the tuning list.
> tuning-digest@onelist.com - switch your subscription to digest mode.
> tuning-normal@onelist.com - switch your subscription to normal mode.
>