Welcomes, files, and time outs.

Brethren and sisthren,

I'm enjoying having Kyle Gann here, but I have a suspicion he's been a subscriber for a while (no, Kyle?). In any event, I recommend that most everyone here take some time out from time to time and read some of the very fine articles that Mr. Gann has posted on his site:

http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/

Great perspectives on the music(s) of our time, as well as good insights into some of the music/performance issues in NY (and, hence, East Coast) for those of us to the left of all that.

One thing that Kyle mentioned to Dan Stearns bears repeating: while it is really swell to have the facilities of MP3.com at our disposal, it is not always a *slam dunk* to stream the stuff, and for anyone *not* on a cable modem or DSL, welll, I just don't have the time and patience to download the "best quality" files to listen to at my leisure.

The point? Well, maybe John Starrett would consider (and John, you've already done a HUGE favor for everyone with your pro bono encoding/posting of these musics) compiling the .mp3 files on a CD. Or maybe the individuals would consider doing it themselves, as by now surely everyone knows someone with a CD-RW drive. Just a thought, but never in the recent history of recorded music has it been easier or cheaper to splay out your creativity over a wide area.

But again, none of this should minimize the effort John S. has done to get the Tuning Punks site up, going, and continuing...

Cheers,
Jon
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch
http://www.corporeal.com/

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/12879

> Brethren and sisthren,
>
> I'm enjoying having Kyle Gann here, but I have a suspicion he's
been a subscriber for a while (no, Kyle?).

Hi Jon!

Frankly, I think there is no reason to assume that people have been
or are on this list. I've heard other people make similar
assumptions and it is entirely untrue. We can't assume that everyone
is reading this; this is why proselytizing is important. It's best to
guess that people are NOT reading the list, and be pleasantly
surprised.

>
> One thing that Kyle mentioned to Dan Stearns bears repeating: while
it is really swell to have the facilities of MP3.com at our disposal,
it is not always a *slam dunk* to stream the stuff, and for anyone
*not* on a cable modem or DSL, well, I just don't have the time and
patience to download the "best quality" files to listen to at my
leisure.
>

I get "reasonable" quality from an "average" modem at 56KB through a
telephone line. Higher quality downloads *DO* take time... but not a
lot more time than wandering around in a record store...

> The point? Well, maybe John Starrett would consider (and John,
you've already done a HUGE favor for everyone with your pro bono
encoding/posting of these musics) compiling the .mp3 files on a CD.

What is the point of this when so many people have _writable_
CD-ROMS?? Each person can assemble his *own* CD, depending on
whatever mp3she wants.

If people don't have this equipment now, they will in a very few
years.

You're going the _wrong way_, Jon, in my opinion. In a few years, as
I am certain you have been reading, record stores will have the
capability to *download* music onto CDs... there will be no need for
large inventory. People can get whatever music they want.

In addition, taking music *away* from the physical CD into the
Internet universe makes it more the abstract intangible that "pure"
music should be, in my opinion.

For me, personally, I resent all the "physical manufacturing" that
goes into commercial CD-making. Like a LOT of us here, I have
personally had many opportunities to release commercial CDs... but
always at a great personal financial cost. I resent that. I don't
mind not making money on music, but I *SURELY* don't like losing a
lot of it.

Someone told me soon there is another format coming up that will
completely replace the CD... what is it?? I don't mean the DVD...
it's something else. Then record companies can persuade everybody to
REPURCHASE their entire recording collection!

What a grand day for commerce!
________ ____ __ __ _
Joseph Pehrson

Quickly, folks:

{In commentary from Maestro Pehrson...}
>--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:
> > I'm enjoying having Kyle Gann here, but I have a suspicion he's
>been a subscriber for a while (no, Kyle?).
>
>Frankly, I think there is no reason to assume that people have been
>or are on this list. I've heard other people make similar
>assumptions and it is entirely untrue.

Joe, I won't take any umbrage at that remark, but wanted you to know: I'm *not* assuming. In the good old days, when this list was on a server, every so often I issued the command that sent me a list of current subscribers. If memory served, Kyle was there (along with the microtonal glitterati). If I am misremembering, than that is all it is. I rarely, if ever, assume information.

>I get "reasonable" quality from an "average" modem at 56KB through a
>telephone line. Higher quality downloads *DO* take time... but not a
>lot more time than wandering around in a record store...

What was my point? Let's see: if the only thing you want people to listen to is beating or non-beating chords, then I suppose "reasonable" quality is just fine. However, some of these pieces are *actual pieces of music*. I find nothing at all out of the ordinary in wanting to hear them in the best light possible.

And time? Well, I have lots of ways to spend mine. Once again, you might want to think globally -- we've had people unsub because of per-minute connections, and you want them to spend hours downloading when a couple of bucks for postage would get a CD with more music on it than you could download in ... a long time? (For the record, I've done a couple of mp3 compilations that can fit, easily, five CDs worth of music on one CD of mp3 files...)

>What is the point of this when so many people have >_writable_ CD-ROMS?? Each person can assemble his *own* CD, depending on >whatever mp3she wants. If people don't have this equipment now, they will >in a very few years.

I have asked a couple of the people whose music I find valuable if they could do this, and some will/are. And I *was* referring to writable CD-Rs.

>You're going the _wrong way_, Jon, in my opinion. In a few years, as I am >certain you have been reading, record stores will have the capability to >*download* music onto CDs... there will be no need for large >inventory. People can get whatever music they want.

I am not going one way, Joe, I am going many ways. I want the Punks site to remain, I want the individual composers to have their own sites. What I want is what the net should be: pluralistic. I want each person to have access to the stuff, in whatever form is best accessible. I was considering the CD project *an addition to*, not a replacement of.

Until everyone actually _does_ have drop-dead, rock-solid, 24/7 access to 320k bit-rate encoded music files.

>In addition, taking music *away* from the physical CD into the
>Internet universe makes it more the abstract intangible that "pure"
>music should be, in my opinion.

I find RealAudio and low bit-rate mp3 fine for 'examples' or samples of music, to whet the appetite. I find it wholly unsatisfactory for good listening. When the scenario exists for experiencing the "pure" in an uncompromised fashion, I'm there.

>For me, personally, I resent all the "physical manufacturing" that
>goes into commercial CD-making.

Ah, written communication. Where, oh where, did I say anything about _commercial_ releases??? I'm just talking about individual people popping a CD-R in the drive and burning it! Costs anywhere from less than a buck to (at most) under five! And people will hear your music As It Is Intended To Be!

>What a grand day for commerce!

Just for the record, I am at least as anti-big-label-commerce as you. You must have misconstrued my post in some way.

BOTTOM LINE: if you write deep and affecting music, I want to hear it in it's best light. Away from a computer fan whirring, not on cheap computer sound system speakers, not in low bit-rate compression algorithms. If I can't hear it live, I want to hear it as good as it gets.

Does your music deserve less?

[As a humorous aside, Partch was well-known to, on the one hand, dislike recording, but, on the other, hope that the recording would be listened to well. In the earliest days of long-playing records, in the mid-50's, he placed the following on the back of one of his first Gate 5 releases:

"The FIRST HEARING of this work should be through the best and most powerful playback equipment that is obtainable for the short time necessary. When one judges the work through inadequate playback equipment it is very much as though he were appraising a new painting by the light of a 25-watt bulb twenty paces away in the dead of night."

Hell, I should be so concise, huh?]

Unrancorously,
Jon
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch
http://www.corporeal.com/

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Jonathan M. Szanto" <JSZANTO@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/12912

> Joe, I won't take any umbrage at that remark, but wanted you to
know: I'm *not* assuming. In the good old days, when this list was on
a server, every so often I issued the command that sent me a list of
current subscribers.
>

No, no, surely no umbrage was intended. Not even a partial moon. I
guess "people come and go, talking of Michaelangelo...."

> if the only thing you want people to
listen to is beating or non-beating chords,

Jon... that's a funny comment. Somebody had to make it!

> I have asked a couple of the people whose music I find valuable if
they could do this, and some will/are. And I *was* referring to
writable CD-Rs.

Oh! I getcha. You just don't have one yourself yet... They're pretty
inexpensive now...

I was considering the CD project *an addition to*, not a replacement
of. Until everyone actually _does_ have drop-dead, rock-solid, 24/7
access to 320k bit-rate encoded music files.

Ok. I hear ya!

>
> [As a humorous aside, Partch was well-known to, on the one hand,
dislike recording, but, on the other, hope that the recording would
be listened to well. In the earliest days of long-playing records, in
the mid-50's, he placed the following on the back of one of his first
Gate 5 releases:
>

Actually, I was thinking about this and wanted to ask you, and some
others your opinions on it... Some have mentioned that Partch was a
true pioneer of the "Indie" label... sounds right. Yet, that
certainly wouldn't totally jive with his dislike of recorded music in
general... Like many aspects of life, we learn to live in necessary
contradictions...

>
> Unrancorously,
> Jon

Oh no, John. Was it my word choice, or did I capitalize too many
things (German language joke, not funny)

Just a pointed discussion. Rancor doesn't "rank" with me!

Best,

Joe
_________ ___ __ __ _
Joseph Pehrson

On Sat, 16 Sep 2000 21:52:00 -0000, "Joseph Pehrson"
<josephpehrson@compuserve.com> wrote:

>I get "reasonable" quality from an "average" modem at 56KB through a
>telephone line. Higher quality downloads *DO* take time... but not a
>lot more time than wandering around in a record store...

You're lucky to get 56K from a telephone line. I typically connect at
anywhere from 21.6 to 28.8, even though I've got a 56K modem. But I usually
spend 1.5 - 3 hours a night online, so it's easy to have an mp3 downloading
in the background while I'm catching up on my email or surfing the web for
the latest Zelda news. Still, it's highly annoying when you get 90% of the
way through an hour-long download and for no apparent reason the download
stops and you have to start it all over again the next day. (Fortunately
that doesn't happen too often.)

Another (lower bandwidth) possibility is what I did before the Tuning
Punks: I made Real Audio files of my music (not as good quality as mp3's
but quite a bit smaller) and put them up on a free Netscape page
(http://sites.netscape.net/thryomanes/music.html). I also have a few
lower-quality mp3's (48K mono) on my FTP site at
ftp://ftp.io.com/pub/usr/hmiller/music/.

--
see my music page ---> ---<http://www.io.com/~hmiller/music/music.html>--
hmiller (Herman Miller) "If all Printers were determin'd not to print any
@io.com email password: thing till they were sure it would offend no body,
\ "Subject: teamouse" / there would be very little printed." -Ben Franklin