Re: [tuning] New research on music predating speech

Speaking of ancient what-might-uv-beens, in about 1962 there was an article
in the Musical Quarterly that mentioned some vestiges of old instruments
found, um, Arkansas? (I wouldn't trust that part of the memory, would you?),
anyway, this instrument was alleged to be a triple-reed affair and the
researchers' guesstimate was that the three reeds played notes that were a
major ninth apart, like G1, A2, B3. So I guess, going the other way, "Three
Blind Mice" has been with us for quite a spell. <grin>
Jay
At 10:44 PM 9/15/00 +0100, you wrote:
>
>This is slightly off topic, but interesting nonetheless. Anthropologists in
England (Cambridge
>University) are looking into the very real possibility that "cavemen", as
the radio programme
>reported, used pitches and rhythm to communicate , vocally and
instrumentally, before the
>constructs of human speech had been established. I'm sorry that I don't
have any references to
>the researchers as I gleaned this from a half -listened -to breakfast radio
report by the
>BBC. Some sort of early instruments with definite piches had been
discovered and this led to
>the research.
>I just thought that this might provide some relief for the list regulars
in speculating what
>kind of scales early humanoids might haveused. Now wouldn't it screw things
up for all of us
>if they found evidence of the use of 12-tet?
>
>
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At 10:44 PM 9/15/00 +0100, Alison Monteith wrote:

>Anthropologists in England (Cambridge
>University) are looking into the very real possibility that "cavemen", as
the radio programme
>reported, used pitches and rhythm to communicate , vocally and
instrumentally, before the
>constructs of human speech had been established.

I assume they mean relative pitch, rather than absolute pitch. I doubt most
of us lost perfect pitch that late in our evolution. The natural world (the
prehistoric environment) produces mostly white noise. (In a parallel vein,
consider how difficult it is to name the colors of stars out of context.)

To my knowledge, birds and whales have communicated with rhythm and pitch
sequences (melodies?) for a verly long time. So it's improbable that our
ancestors chose not to use an ability they must have had and that they must
have noticed birds producing.

>I just thought that this might provide some relief for the list regulars
in speculating what
>kind of scales early humanoids might haveused.

I would wager they used scales that relied on whole tones, which are basic
to both the songs of many birds and the tonal system of English today. (For
practical purposes, a whole tone is a fifth up and a fourth down.)

>Now wouldn't it screw things up for all of us
>if they found evidence of the use of 12-tet?

As a tuning system? I doubt that prehistoric instruments allowed such
precision that a fifth of 700c could be chosen over 702c (Pythagorean), or
695c (19-TET). Troglodytes were not known to have employed logarithms. Even
if a 12-tone scale had been the mode, I assume a capella singers of that
time (as now) would have preferred just intonation, Pythagorean tuning, or
well temperament over equal temperament. Equal temperament lends itself only
to harmonic modulation, which seems a modern development.

It is even conceivable that glissando was preferred to steady pitch. I'd be
surprised if vibrato developed that early.

Aren't some caves (in the Phillipines or the Caucasus Mountains or
somewhere) still used as housing today? If so, do we know what scales are
used by contemporary cave-dwellers? Are the acoustics of housing relevant to
the discussion?

-- Charlie Jordan <http://www.rev.net/people/aloe/tuning>

--- In tuning@egroups.com, ALOE@R... wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/12891

>
> To my knowledge, birds and whales have communicated with rhythm and
pitch sequences (melodies?) for a verly long time. So it's improbable
that our ancestors chose not to use an ability they must have had and
that they must have noticed birds producing.

What is it with these birds again?? It totally redefines the
definition of "bird brains..."
__________ ____ __ __
Joseph Pehrson