Re: [newjustintonation] Gyaling from "The Diamond Path"

>Below are the cents values for the measurements I made of the Tibetan
>Buddhist Gyaling from "The Diamond Path" CD: Shanachie 66006,
>09/12/00.

While this is very interesting and probably worth the effort, I would like
to add a few words of caution. Though I haven't played any Tibetan double
reeds, I have played similar open and pirouetted double reeds. My
experience is that intonation on them is *widely* variable, it being a
rather simple matter to vary the pitch as much as a third either way
through air pressure alone. Hitting the same standard pitch within a few
cents each time would be very difficult and unlikely, especially with no
other simultaneous reference.

My experience in studying some Tibetan Buddhist music is that rgya-gling
double reeds are typically played in groups and that the musicians actually
cultivate the simultaneous discrepancies in pitch as they do in dbyangs
chant and dung trumpets. The resulting "thickness" or tone cluster sound
suggests to me a kind love of of celestial opulence and natural chaos that
characterize certain Buddhist sects. Therefore I would be very cautious in
making any generalized conclusions based on these measurements, at least
without some research about the intentions of the performers.

Bill

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^ Bill Alves email: alves@hmc.edu ^
^ Harvey Mudd College URL: http://www2.hmc.edu/~alves/ ^
^ 301 E. Twelfth St. (909)607-4170 (office) ^
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Bill,

These are points well taken, and the issue of the wide variability of
the pitch of the Gyaling was in fact, something I was concerned
about. On this particular recording, there is a huge ensemble of
monks playing various instruments of the ritual orchestra, and the
Gyaling is in fact accompanied by the Buhak, Dung, Kangling, Ang and
Dungkar - as well as many percussion instruments. I think you are
correct to say that my measurements would just represent this
isolated performance, where others may yield very different values.
Worthy of mention though, is that it was remarkable how accurately
the intervals were played in the 2 examples I analysized. Thanks
kindly for your scholarly input on this, as this was my first time
ever trying to do this procedure.

Do you happen to know by what method A. Ellis made his measurements
of cents values?

Respectfully,

Jacky Ligon

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Bill Alves <ALVES@O...> wrote:
>
> While this is very interesting and probably worth the effort, I
would like
> to add a few words of caution. Though I haven't played any Tibetan
double
> reeds, I have played similar open and pirouetted double reeds. My
> experience is that intonation on them is *widely* variable, it
being a
> rather simple matter to vary the pitch as much as a third either way
> through air pressure alone. Hitting the same standard pitch within
a few
> cents each time would be very difficult and unlikely, especially
with no
> other simultaneous reference.
>
> My experience in studying some Tibetan Buddhist music is that rgya-
gling
> double reeds are typically played in groups and that the musicians
actually
> cultivate the simultaneous discrepancies in pitch as they do in
dbyangs
> chant and dung trumpets. The resulting "thickness" or tone cluster
sound
> suggests to me a kind love of of celestial opulence and natural
chaos that
> characterize certain Buddhist sects. Therefore I would be very
cautious in
> making any generalized conclusions based on these measurements, at
least
> without some research about the intentions of the performers.
>
> Bill
>