re: M. Schulter's Idea, the electronic Bosanquet keyboard

>>The Wilson Uath-108 (MicroZone) 810-key microtonal MIDI keyboard
>>7500.00
>
>Well folks, at $7500.00 I think I'll continue learning creative ways
>to use the old "5 black-7 white", my midi wind and percussion
>controllers to get the job done.

That's all fine and good, but considering what Mr. Starr has done,
I think $7500 is a fine price, and I can't understand why everybody
around here seems to have such a hard time with it. If you can do
it for less, I'd like to see it!

>I find Margo's idea's about using 2 midi manuals to be much more
>cost efficient

Not to mention completely limiting. Organs and harpsichords have
had multiple manuals for hundreds of years, yet I know of no serious
microtonal work ever done in this manner. Can you play chords
across manuals 1-handed, for instance? What if I split your favorite
piano keyboard into seperate 7- and 5-tone manuals. How would you
like that?

>and besides your not in danger of losing years of acquired keyboard
>skills with this method.

What kind of skill is it that can you loose by learning a new one?
I'd like to know. This rampant fear of new keyboards is pure mind
fungus (and not the good kind, either!).

>Has anyone on this list actually played these Starr Labs boards, or
>better yet do you know of anyone that has composed music on one that
>may be able to tell us what the transition to this Bosanquet keyboard
>was like? Monz? What was it like for you when you played it? I've
>seen you play keyboards before, and you've got skills - how'd it feel
>to you? Surely there would be a bit of a learning curve - and
>especially when it would come to setting up mappings.

I've had the chance to play only one generalized keyboard, and that
only briefly, and I didn't like it, because it had Wilson's hexagonal
keys (as does the Uath), and I prefer rectangular keys. However, the
harpsichord I played had tiered ranks, which is great for rectangular
but bad for hexagonal. I have reason to believe the planar layout of
the Uath suits its hexagonal keys far better.

The other key thing about the Uath is the action. When I tried the
"mute" prototype in 1998, the action travel was .008". Which is a
great idea, with the polyphonic aftertouch Starr has planned. His
aftertouch mechanism is simply awesome. But if I understood the web
site, poly touch isn't available just yet. I wouldn't get the
board without it.

>Got to admit, it does look really cool!! If only money were no
>object.

Do you play keyboard? Have you looked at the price of pianos lately?
Yes, it's expensive. No, I can't afford it today either. But
musical instruments are expensive, and one day, I just may buy it.

-Carl

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Carl Lumma <CLUMMA@N...> wrote:
> >
> That's all fine and good, but considering what Mr. Starr has done,
> I think $7500 is a fine price, and I can't understand why everybody
> around here seems to have such a hard time with it. If you can do
> it for less, I'd like to see it!

I guess it is a bit unfair to complain about the price. It is a
wonderful achievement that I wish I were able to afford to explore.

>
> >I find Margo's idea's about using 2 midi manuals to be much more
> >cost efficient
>
> Not to mention completely limiting. Organs and harpsichords have
> had multiple manuals for hundreds of years, yet I know of no serious
> microtonal work ever done in this manner. Can you play chords
> across manuals 1-handed, for instance? What if I split your
favorite
> piano keyboard into separate 7- and 5-tone manuals. How would you
> like that?

Margo does seem to be able to very efficiently navigate her two
manuals. I find it an interesting and workable solution. There is
hope that she soon will be coming forth with some improvisations for
us. I'm so much looking forward to this!

I do see your point though - it does look as though it would open up
some very interesting possibilities.

>
> What kind of skill is it that can you loose by learning a new one?
> I'd like to know. This rampant fear of new keyboards is pure mind
> fungus (and not the good kind, either!).

A well put rhetorical question - and I guess the only answer to it,
is to state that since I have been deeply involved in electronic
music composition since 1978, I have tried many different kinds of
controllers - I actively use keyboard, midi-wind and
percussion/mallet controllers to compose with, so I wouldn't
necessarily classify myself as having "This rampant fear of new
keyboards", and would recommend a fungicide for any that do. As a
matter of fact, I advocate to using these kinds of tools for the new
vocabulary that they can open up.

>
> I've had the chance to play only one generalized keyboard, and that
> only briefly, and I didn't like it, because it had Wilson's
hexagonal
> keys (as does the Uath), and I prefer rectangular keys. However,
the
> harpsichord I played had tiered ranks, which is great for
rectangular
> but bad for hexagonal. I have reason to believe the planar layout
of
> the Uath suits its hexagonal keys far better.

Do you find the rectangular keys just easier to play and perhaps more
familiar feeling than the hex keys?

>
> The other key thing about the Uath is the action. When I tried the
> "mute" prototype in 1998, the action travel was .008". Which is a
> great idea, with the polyphonic aftertouch Starr has planned. His
> aftertouch mechanism is simply awesome. But if I understood the web
> site, poly touch isn't available just yet. I wouldn't get the
> board without it.

Could you describe some sound design scenarios of how you route
polyphonic aftertouch?

>
> Do you play keyboard? Have you looked at the price of pianos
lately?
> Yes, it's expensive. No, I can't afford it today either. But
> musical instruments are expensive, and one day, I just may buy it.
>
Yes, I do play keyboards (see above), but my Piano Touch is what one
might imagine from a person who's played on Plastic for most of their
life (even though I started out on my parents old upright piano).
Your remarks about this are encouraging - this is what I hoped to
learn more about by asking for peoples experience and preferences.
Thanks greatly for yours!

Respectfully,

Jacky Ligon

>> That's all fine and good, but considering what Mr. Starr has done,
>> I think $7500 is a fine price, and I can't understand why everybody
>> around here seems to have such a hard time with it. If you can do
>> it for less, I'd like to see it!
>
>I guess it is a bit unfair to complain about the price. It is a
>wonderful achievement that I wish I were able to afford to explore.

I was actually being serious about the "I'd like to see it" part,
since right now, I can't afford the Uath either!

>> I've had the chance to play only one generalized keyboard, and that
>> only briefly, and I didn't like it, because it had Wilson's
>> hexagonal keys (as does the Uath), and I prefer rectangular keys.
>> However, the harpsichord I played had tiered ranks, which is great
>> for rectangular but bad for hexagonal. I have reason to believe the
>> planar layout of the Uath suits its hexagonal keys far better.
>
>Do you find the rectangular keys just easier to play and perhaps more
>familiar feeling than the hex keys?

One of the key things (yikes!) about the Halberstadt (7-white, 5-black)
keyboard is the ability to access notes from one rank while your hand
is centered over another (or, while it is moving toward another). Hexagons
pack in such a way that there's no space between adjacent keys on a given
rank, so you can't do this, and that cuts out a lot of action. The
problem is exacerbated on multi-tier boards, since the ranks in front of
you trap your fingers, keeping them curled. That's damn annoying. The
flat-plane design of the Uath relieves some of that, but it's still
important to remember that fingertips do not fall on a line.

>> The other key thing about the Uath is the action. When I tried the
>> "mute" prototype in 1998, the action travel was .008". Which is a
>> great idea, with the polyphonic aftertouch Starr has planned. His
>> aftertouch mechanism is simply awesome. But if I understood the web
>> site, poly touch isn't available just yet. I wouldn't get the
>> board without it.
>
>Could you describe some sound design scenarios of how you route
>polyphonic aftertouch?

Route? I'm told it's damn hard to build poly touch with so many keys
so close together as on the Uath... Or did you mean how I would use
the aftertouch? The obvious thing is a slight pitch bend, for bebung
as on a clavichord. But I'd map it to something like relative amplitudes
of even/odd partials on my additive synth, or better yet a mistuning
of the higher partials of a patch, like what happens during the attack
on percussion instruments (like the piano).

-Carl

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Carl Lumma <CLUMMA@N...> wrote:
> The
> problem is exacerbated on multi-tier boards, since the ranks in
front of
> you trap your fingers, keeping them curled. That's damn annoying.
The
> flat-plane design of the Uath relieves some of that, but it's still
> important to remember that fingertips do not fall on a line.

Are there some better key shapes that have been discussed? Perhaps
some kind of keys and keyboard with surface curvature and layout that
more closely conforms to the needs of the human hand. Makes one
wonder why must a keyboard layout must always be flat.

>
> Route? I'm told it's damn hard to build poly touch with so many
keys
> so close together as on the Uath...

Yes, and one would hope that there would be some kind of global
setting to control the aftertouch across the full range of the
keyboard.

Or did you mean how I would use
> the aftertouch? The obvious thing is a slight pitch bend, for
bebung
> as on a clavichord. But I'd map it to something like relative
amplitudes
> of even/odd partials on my additive synth, or better yet a mistuning
> of the higher partials of a patch, like what happens during the
attack
> on percussion instruments (like the piano).

Yes, the latter. It is very interesting that you are working with
additive synthesis techniques. This is something I've only been able
to get into just recently with the pc. If I may ask, what module are
you using? Polyphonic Aftertouch to the partials - that's great!!

Thanks Carl

Jacky

>Are there some better key shapes that have been discussed? Perhaps
>some kind of keys and keyboard with surface curvature and layout that
>more closely conforms to the needs of the human hand.

I think multi-tiered rectangular is best, actually.

>Makes one wonder why must a keyboard layout must always be flat.

Actually, the Uath is the _only_ keyboard I know of that's flat.

>Yes, the latter. It is very interesting that you are working with
>additive synthesis techniques. This is something I've only been able
>to get into just recently with the pc. If I may ask, what module are
>you using? Polyphonic Aftertouch to the partials - that's great!!

Yeah, it should be tha bomb. Kyma is my intended synth of choice
for this sort of stuff. Right now, I'm using channel aftertouch
with my Kawai K5000s to do some of this (everything but detuning
higher partials -- K5K can't do that).

-Carl