RE: [tuning] Joe Monzo's Prime Factor notation

Joseph Pehrson wrote,

>However, I am still a little unconvinced that this system can become
>an easy, universal standard for musicians encountering
>microtonality...

It's particularly unsuited even for _analyzing_ any music that's not in
strict JI -- any music that tempers out one or more commas -- say meantone
notation. Joe will say that he can use fractional exponents to notate
meantone, but he needed my help to figure out how to do that, and the
results were bewildering to Joe, so how is someone analyzing the score
supposed to see all these primes with fractional exponents and have any idea
of what harmonic relationships are being applied?

Leaving fractional exponents aside -- harmonic analysis and ratio-space
representation is a great tool for the composer and the theorist. But when
the music hits the performer's stand, what is needed is pitch-height on one
axis, and time on the other axis. The harmonies should come out right as a
result of the musician's education, experience, and ability to make
adjustments by listening. Prime Factor notation gives no indication of pitch
height and so turns these axioms (or conventions) upside-down.

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/12366

>But when the music hits the performer's stand, what is needed is
>pitch-height on one axis, and time on the other axis.

I'm HEARING you!
___________ ____ __ __ _
Joseph Pehrson

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:
> http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/12366
>
> Joseph Pehrson wrote,
>
> > However, I am still a little unconvinced that this system can
> > become an easy, universal standard for musicians encountering
> > microtonality...
>
> It's particularly unsuited even for _analyzing_ any music that's
> not in strict JI -- any music that tempers out one or more commas
> -- say meantone notation.

Very true - but it's particularly *well*-suited to analyzing
JI *theory*! - which is the main reason I developed it in the
beginning.

And the longer I've worked on my ideas, the more convinced I
have become that the ear/brain system 'uses' the prime-series
as some sort of harmonic template into which it tries to fit
what it hears. If this is the case, then prime-factor notation
may turn out to be a very useful tool in studying our
*perceptions*, regardless of the actual tuning used.

> Joe will say that he can use fractional exponents to notate
> meantone, but he needed my help to figure out how to do that,
> and the results were bewildering to Joe, so how is someone
> analyzing the score supposed to see all these primes with
> fractional exponents and have any idea of what harmonic
> relationships are being applied?

But those calculations were specifically for placing temperaments
on my lattice diagrams for comparison to the JI lattice-points.
I never meant to imply that fractional exponents in a prime-factor
notation were good for actual musical notation of meantones,
let alone performance. But I *do* think fractional exponents
are good for notating ETs.

>
> Leaving fractional exponents aside -- harmonic analysis and
> ratio-space representation is a great tool for the composer and
> the theorist. But when the music hits the performer's stand,
> what is needed is pitch-height on one axis, and time on the
> other axis. The harmonies should come out right as a result
> of the musician's education, experience, and ability to make
> adjustments by listening. Prime Factor notation gives no
> indication of pitch height and so turns these axioms (or
> conventions) upside-down.

I totally agree - which is precisely why I've advocated 24-,
72-, and 144-tET notations for *practical* use.

Still, I hold to the contention that once a performer becomes
*familiar* with any music notation, and with the tuning
requirements of the particular piece or composer, he/she *can*
play the pitches intended by the composer. If some study were
to be devoted to prime-factor notation, I'm convinced that it
would result in beautifully-tuned performances.

Someday, when my 'JustMusic' software is finished, I'll finally
be able to print out scores of my music in prime-factor notation
directly from the computer files, and then I can start collecting
the data on how well it works in performance practice.

-monz
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html