RE: [tuning] Tuning Lab Experiment otonal/utonal [dom 7th, half d im 7]

Jospeh Pehrson wrote,

>The 22-tET "version" of this chord has audible beating... I'm hearing
>on this equipment about 3 beats per second.

>AND, the dominant seventh chord of 12-tET beats even more... I'm
>hearing about 7 beats per second.

>All in all, the distinctions between these dominant seventh chords,
>for me, seem a matter of degree of clearly audible, and even
>"countable" beating...

Well, there would actually be at least 10 different rates of beating for
each tetrad, not to mention their multiples. If you listen to the beating of
the fifth, which is the loudest beating frequency (a twelfth above the
root), the 12-tET 7th chord beats more slowly than the 22-tET one. The
tritone is the same in both, and all other intervals in the chord beat more
slowly in 22-tET than in 12-tET.

>FINALLY... the half-diminished seventh chord in 12-tET seems to be
>beating about 1 beat per second. In this sense, it is neither like
>the just otonal half-diminished seventh, which has little beating, OR
>the utonal 1/7:1/6:1/5:1/4... which doesn't really BEAT in a timable
>fashion, but which has a certain "wobble" to it that is different
>from the otonal perception.

Perhaps I need to make you a 1/1:6/5:3/2:5/3 file and a 10:12:15:17 file, to
allow us to try to get a better grasp of what you're hearing the 12-tET
half-diminished 7th as.

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Paul H. Erlich" <PERLICH@A...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/12316

[4:5:6:7 chords]

> >The 22-tET "version" of this chord has audible beating... I'm
hearing on this equipment about 3 beats per second.
>
> >AND, the dominant seventh chord of 12-tET beats even more... I'm
> >hearing about 7 beats per second.
>
> >All in all, the distinctions between these dominant seventh
chords, for me, seem a matter of degree of clearly audible, and even
> >"countable" beating...
>
> Well, there would actually be at least 10 different rates of
beating for each tetrad, not to mention their multiples. If you
listen to the beating of the fifth, which is the loudest beating
frequency(a twelfth above the root), the 12-tET 7th chord beats more
slowly than the 22-tET one. The tritone is the same in both, and all
other intervals in the chord beat more slowly in 22-tET than in
12-tET.
>
Hmmm. That's interesting. I wonder why I'm hearing the 12-tET as
beating so much faster??? I just listened to it again... and I'm
hearing exactly the same thing as above...

http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/140/tuning_lab.html

[half-diminished seventh chords, otonal/utonal]

> >FINALLY... the half-diminished seventh chord in 12-tET seems to be
> >beating about 1 beat per second. In this sense, it is neither
like the just otonal half-diminished seventh, which has little
beating,
OR
> >the utonal 1/7:1/6:1/5:1/4... which doesn't really BEAT in a
timable fashion, but which has a certain "wobble" to it that is
different from the otonal perception.
>
I'm still getting the same impression... 09-04-00

> Perhaps I need to make you a 1/1:6/5:3/2:5/3 file and a 10:12:15:17
file, to allow us to try to get a better grasp of what you're hearing
the 12-tET half-diminished 7th as.

That would be great!
__________ ____ __ __ _
Joseph Pehrson