Re: [tuning] correction: retreat to 72-tET possible...

Joseph Pehrson wrote,

> Also, PLEASE include the "key" to the notation. If I'm
understanding this all correctly, the 72-tET system includes 12-tET in
it!

Joe, see <https://www.mindeartheart.org/micro.html>.

> However, until I get the information on the system and learn to
"internalize" it, I will continue to use quartertones with an
"adjustment" of up to 50 cents, like Johnny Reinhard taught me!

My question is how does one train people to actually tackle
disembodied +/- cents delineations? 1200-tET "to the cent"! I'm truly
mystified. Just the physically prohibitive nature of many adjustable
pitch instruments, or certain registers of others, would seem to make
this in the absolute best of circumstances (to put it mildly)
impossible. This must be meant in some broader, more generalized
sense? I do realize that the difference between the musical circles
that we frequent are vast, but still, how does one specifically go
about training these folks to do this?

> I should also mention, as an explanation of my current, hopefully,
"practical" method... I also use a "dummy track." No, don't laugh. I
mean, I am using a synthesizer track for the performer to "practice"
with. Then, of course, in performance, that track is subtracted, a la
"music minus one..."

I do this all the time! Tailor-made pitch tracks... tailor-made click
tracks... all of these make many otherwise impossible (well, for me
anyway) things reasonably doable. (I also remember Joe Maneri once
telling me that the players of an Ezra Simms piece were getting the
pitches fed to them in a concert that he had just attended as well.)

> Actually, Dan, there isn't so much "luck" to it. It's been a long,
hard "haul" and much of my time... as is Johnny Reinhard's by the
way... is taken up raising money and doing grant applications.

Right. Nothing remotely underhanded meant on my part. I was just
trying to underscore some of the fairly extreme distinctions in our
backgrounds and whatnot; if it's not clear, or I haven't said it
before, musically I come from the DIY and completely self-taught
"milieu."

ds

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "D.Stearns" <STEARNS@C...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/12263

>
> Joe, see <https://www.mindeartheart.org/micro.html>.
>

This is especially interesting, since Ted Mook has performed some of
my music over the years, and we have featured Matt Rosenblum on one
of the Composers Concordance concerts.

>
> > However, until I get the information on the system and learn to
> "internalize" it, I will continue to use quartertones with an
> "adjustment" of up to 50 cents, like Johnny Reinhard taught me!
>
> My question is how does one train people to actually tackle
> disembodied +/- cents delineations? 1200-tET "to the cent"! I'm
truly
> mystified. Just the physically prohibitive nature of many adjustable
> pitch instruments, or certain registers of others, would seem to
make
> this in the absolute best of circumstances (to put it mildly)
> impossible. This must be meant in some broader, more generalized
> sense? I do realize that the difference between the musical circles
> that we frequent are vast, but still, how does one specifically go
> about training these folks to do this?
>

I think Johnny Reinhard is going to have to answer this question,
since he is my "teacher" in this method...

> telling me that the players of an Ezra Simms piece were getting the
> pitches fed to them in a concert that he had just attended as well.)
>

That's a funny (maybe not so funny) one.

> Right. Nothing remotely underhanded meant on my part. I was just
> trying to underscore some of the fairly extreme distinctions in our
> backgrounds and whatnot; if it's not clear, or I haven't said it
> before, musically I come from the DIY and completely self-taught
> "milieu."

I wish I had a sliver of the mathematical abilities and background
that YOU do, Dan!
>
____________ ____ ___ __
Joseph Pehrson

In a message dated 9/3/00 7:31:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
STEARNS@CAPECOD.NET writes:

>
> My question is how does one train people to actually tackle
> disembodied +/- cents delineations? 1200-tET "to the cent"! I'm truly
> mystified.

Part of the experience of preparing a piece for performance is to do this,
interpret cents distinctions in playing on all instruments. An answer to the
above question depends on exactly which interval is desired on which
instrument.

Since all players have used tuning machines with arrows at "0" to indicate a
targeted pitch (usually a 12-TET designated note), being out of tune in
either direction is quickly evaluated and corrected. However, memory of 5
cents out of tune or 10 cents out of tune develops a physical feel and
sensibility. An eighthtone can be learned as the half of the pedestrian
quartertone. Fingerings aid in memory of pitch placement. Frankly, a
quartertone is small enough that a musician can discover its splits into
different slivers quite easily once proper attention is paid.

Believe me, AFMM musicians pay attention.

Johnny Reinhard

> [Johnny Reinhard]
> http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/12273
>
> Frankly, a quartertone is small enough that a musician can
> discover its splits into different slivers quite easily once
> proper attention is paid.
>
> Believe me, AFMM musicians pay attention.

Thank you, Johnny, for delivering more eloquently than I
the defense for 24-tET *notation* that I've tried to present
here.

(Never mind its inconsistencies as a tuning...)

I, too, believe that any other tuning system can be coaxed
out of an ensemble of good players with as simply a notation
as 24-tET. Even our regular meantone-based notation is
amenable to lots of microtonal tampering.

(No, I didn't say 'tempering'!... but I guess that may apply too.)

-monz
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html

--- In tuning@egroups.com, " Monz" <MONZ@J...> wrote:

http://www.egroups.com/message/tuning/12280

>
> Thank you, Johnny, for delivering more eloquently than I
> the defense for 24-tET *notation* that I've tried to present
> here.
>
> (Never mind its inconsistencies as a tuning...)
>
> I, too, believe that any other tuning system can be coaxed
> out of an ensemble of good players with as simply a notation
> as 24-tET. Even our regular meantone-based notation is
> amenable to lots of microtonal tampering.
>

So, Monz... then you disagree VERY STRONGLY with Dan Sterns, yes?
__________ ____ __ _ __ _
Joseph Pehrson