Tuning-related Science Fair Question

Does anyone have any open questions about alternative tunings (especially
JI) that might be suitable for a middle school science project? All
suggestions are welcome, even stupid ones.

Stay tuned,
Keenan P.

P.S. In case you're wondering why I'm asking, (I might as well get it out in
the open) I'm 13. If that doesn't make me the youngest person on the tuning
list, (fill in crazy threat here).

Keenan,

Hello.

You could demonstrate how the Just Ratios are found in the Linear
Harmonic Series.

Good luck with the project.

Age is no barrier here.

Thanks,

Jacky Ligon

--- In tuning@egroups.com, "Keenan Pepper" <mtpepper@p...> wrote:
> Does anyone have any open questions about alternative tunings
(especially
> JI) that might be suitable for a middle school science project? All
> suggestions are welcome, even stupid ones.
>
> Stay tuned,
> Keenan P.
>
> P.S. In case you're wondering why I'm asking, (I might as well get
it out in
> the open) I'm 13. If that doesn't make me the youngest person on
the tuning
> list, (fill in crazy threat here).

"Keenan Pepper" <mtpepper@prodigy.net>

>Does anyone have any open questions about alternative tunings (especially
>JI) that might be suitable for a middle school science project? All
>suggestions are welcome, even stupid ones.

:)! What's up dude!

I don't know much about science fairs... what type of project are you
looking for? Would you like to build an instrument to demonstrate a
tuning? Write up a thesis on an open question? Conduct an experiment
to test the thesis? All of the above?

Can you read music? If so, it wouldn't be hard to...

1. pick a tuning that you like, and write a blurb on why you like it
2. retune an old autoharp (or something) in the tuning, to demo it
3. figure out a staff notation for it
4. compose a short ditty using your staff notation

...and if you really want to appear grown-up,

5. ask for money to get the ditty performed.

Good luck!

-Carl

[Keenan Pepper wrote:]
>I suppose I didn't make myself clear enough, but my teacher makes a big
>deal out of it being an investigation instead of a demonstration; in
>other words, you shouldn't know what's going to happen beforehand.

Can you generate sounds of various tunings? Throw 'em at a bunch of
people who aren't prepared, and see what happens! JI 5-limit, JI
7-limit, 12-tET. Illustrate the math involved. Get prize.

>and make some poor souls listen to my synth blat and interrogate them
>on which of two noises that sound exactly the same to them sounds
>better. But I'm being cynical.

I'll bet you'll be less cynical if you DO try this! Don't forget to
include the list when publishing your results!

JdL

Hi Keenan,

Here's an idea for your project, along the lines suggested by
Paul Erlich, which tests his Harmonic Entropy findings:

Set up a series of intervals (dyads) tuned to small-integer ratios
as well as very close approximations to those ratios which use a
different tuning, such as high-integer ratios, ETs, meantones,
etc.

Scatter the distribution of the various interval sizes in your
playing order, and play them for the listeners. Get them to
express their reactions in as much detail as possible, then rank
those descriptions according to the width of the interval, and
compare the listener's reactions to Paul's Harmonic Entropy charts:

http://www.ixpres.com/interval/td/erlich/entropy.htm

-monz
http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html

Hm... I sent a note off-line to Keenan; then I saw other people reply, so here's what I said, just for what it's worth...

Rick

You asked...

> Does anyone have any open questions about alternative tunings
> (especially JI) that might be suitable for a middle school
> science project? All suggestions are welcome, even stupid ones.

A couple of years ago my son (who's now 15) did a science project with tunings. He found appropriate books and calculated what lengths of tubes he would need to cut to make a wind-chime that gave 3:4:5, starting with ONE long aluminum tube we had around. (The question of tube length is a little more difficult than just having the LENGTHS be 3:4:5, because of the open end calculation.)

I also helped him demonstrate different intervals and how they sound. You can use CoolEdit2000 for interval experimentation.

We also did an excerpt from a Bach piece in several different tuning systems.

You could make a monochord (or two) and divide it into sections and play intervals by ear; record them using CoolEdit2000 or whatever; and see how they compare to just intervals...

You could find a way to demonstrate the fundamental tuning problem with commas -- i.e., the seven octaves isn't really equal to 12 perfect fifths...

Those are some thoughts. I hope you post back to the tuning list to tell people what you decide to do for the project. Good luck.

Rick

A question I seem to remember which matter in this kind of
investigation (asking people their opinions on sounds) is to ask both
which they prefer and which they consider most consonant. Some people
prefer dissonant sounds and rough sounds, or so it is alleged. I type
as someone who like dissonance, and write my music accordingly.

It would be interesting to determine if the figures I heard, that 25%
of the population prefer non-just non-sweet sounds, is in deed
correct.

Planning good experiments in this area is not easy, but if you have
access to a semi-captive pool of guinea pigs then I think it is well
worth trying.

==John ffitch