RE: [tuning] tuning different

Moti wrote,

>1. i have recording of maqam saba taqasim arabic style and turkish style,
there is some different between >them,
> i need the notes of the saba maqam in turkish style please.

In Manuel's list, under 53-tET, is listed the Turkish Maqam Saba:

8 5 5 13 4 9 9 Maqam Saba, Sunbule

In cents, that would be

0 181 294 408 702 792 996
1200

though Turkish players tend to use a great deal of ornamental pitch
inflection.

[aside: this is pretty close to a 12-tET mode like C C# Eb E G Ab Bb C,
which, when I constructed an exercise to practice 18 modes in 12-tET, was
the only one of them without an accepted name. Well, I guess now I can just
call it "Saba".]

>2. is there any tutorial for tuning, but for realy novice like me?
explanation of rations,commas, etc...

Yes, try http://x31eq.com/start.htm.

>3. i playing violin arabic style, for turkish style i have some method for
48 notes per octave that i >developed to handle the
> slight different between turkish and arabic tuning, is that currect
from professional perspective, or >is there any another method?

The standard modern pedagogy for these styles uses 24 notes per octave for
arabic music, and 53 for Turkish music. The 53-tone scale is, for all
intents and purposes, identical to a chain of pure fifths, and has
essentially pure thirds and sixths as well. So if one has a very good ear,
one can begin to teach oneself the 53-tone system just by tuning the violin
in pure fifths and making pure major and minor thirds and major and minor
sixths with the open strings, then finding pure intervals from the resulting
notes, and so on. The comma, which is essentially 1 step out of the 53, can
be found as follows: Tune your violin in pure fifths G-d-a-e'. Play the e on
the d string which is exactly one octave below the e' string (try making the
chord e-a-e' as consonant as possible). Now continue playing just the low e
and add the open G string. To make this major sixth G-e as consonant as
possible, you will have to slide the e down by one comma. This is the
smallest unit of tuning in the Turkish system, and 53 of them make up one
octave (I'm ignoring the tiny difference between the syntonic and
Pythagorean commas here). However, many Turkish maqamat will be difficult to
construct directly from consonant intervals (in fact the whole 53-tone
theory is kind of artifical since Turkish music is melodic and not
harmonic), plus the expressive deviations are just as important, so there is
no substitute for a deep familarity with hearing the music and experience
playing along with it.

>[aside: this is pretty close to a 12-tET mode like C C# Eb E G Ab Bb C,
>which, when I constructed an exercise to practice 18 modes in 12-tET, was
>the only one of them without an accepted name. Well, I guess now I can just
>call it "Saba".]

Saba in 12 TET have special name : 'zamzamah' : exactly: C C# Eb E G Ab Bb C

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 8/14/00 at 2:35 PM Paul H. Erlich wrote:

>Moti wrote,
>
>
>>1. i have recording of maqam saba taqasim arabic style and turkish style,
>there is some different between >them,
>> i need the notes of the saba maqam in turkish style please.
>
>In Manuel's list, under 53-tET, is listed the Turkish Maqam Saba:
>
>8 5 5 13 4 9 9 Maqam Saba, Sunbule
>
>In cents, that would be
>
>0 181 294 408 702 792 996
>1200
>
>though Turkish players tend to use a great deal of ornamental pitch
>inflection.
>
>[aside: this is pretty close to a 12-tET mode like C C# Eb E G Ab Bb C,
>which, when I constructed an exercise to practice 18 modes in 12-tET, was
>the only one of them without an accepted name. Well, I guess now I can just
>call it "Saba".]
>
>>2. is there any tutorial for tuning, but for realy novice like me?
>explanation of rations,commas, etc...
>
>Yes, try http://x31eq.com/start.htm.
>
>>3. i playing violin arabic style, for turkish style i have some method for
>48 notes per octave that i >developed to handle the
>> slight different between turkish and arabic tuning, is that currect
>from professional perspective, or >is there any another method?
>
>The standard modern pedagogy for these styles uses 24 notes per octave for
>arabic music, and 53 for Turkish music. The 53-tone scale is, for all
>intents and purposes, identical to a chain of pure fifths, and has
>essentially pure thirds and sixths as well. So if one has a very good ear,
>one can begin to teach oneself the 53-tone system just by tuning the violin
>in pure fifths and making pure major and minor thirds and major and minor
>sixths with the open strings, then finding pure intervals from the resulting
>notes, and so on. The comma, which is essentially 1 step out of the 53, can
>be found as follows: Tune your violin in pure fifths G-d-a-e'. Play the e on
>the d string which is exactly one octave below the e' string (try making the
>chord e-a-e' as consonant as possible). Now continue playing just the low e
>and add the open G string. To make this major sixth G-e as consonant as
>possible, you will have to slide the e down by one comma. This is the
>smallest unit of tuning in the Turkish system, and 53 of them make up one
>octave (I'm ignoring the tiny difference between the syntonic and
>Pythagorean commas here). However, many Turkish maqamat will be difficult to
>construct directly from consonant intervals (in fact the whole 53-tone
>theory is kind of artifical since Turkish music is melodic and not
>harmonic), plus the expressive deviations are just as important, so there is
>no substitute for a deep familarity with hearing the music and experience
>playing along with it.
>
>
>
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