Response to George Kahrimanis [tuning experiments]

Hello George!

Well, as usual, Paul Erlich is a little ahead of us. His experiment has
a SEPARATE CHORD for every single .mp3 file! No problems with
voice-leading there!

I don't know why it is taking mp3.com so long to get the experiment "up
and running." It is not yet ready... one important file has not yet been
"approved." I am investigating this. I assume it will all be resolved
by mid-week next week at the latest.

I was a little confused by your own experiment and comments. I didn't
find anyplace where there was an explanation of exactly what chords and
tunings you were using. Is there something I was missing??

Also, I found it a little confounding that you were criticizing the idea
of progression in terms of assessing tuning and, yet, in your own
examples there are nothing BUT progressions.(??) I'm a little
mystified.

As to the following:

> Suppose that we agree that there is some significance in the
>dualistic analysis (o-/u-tonality) of the V7-like chords. The
>question arises whether it is important that the root of G#-C-D#-F#
>is then A# (the lowest common overtone).

I have no answer yet to this question. In fact, Paul, could you please
explain what is meant by the question?? That might help.

Thanks, George, for your interest, and for your own experiment. Please
inform me as to where I can find the accompanying documentation.

It was also nice that you were able to include a silouhette of Banaphshu
as background for your page.

Thanks again!

__________ _______ ___ _ _
Joseph Pehrson

New though I am in the list, I have noticed that you are quite a teaser, Joseph.

> a silouhette of Banaphshu as background for your page

Joseph Pehrson wrote:
> you were criticizing the idea
> of progression in terms of assessing tuning and, yet, in your own
> examples there are nothing BUT progressions.

That is, if you study _progressions_, fine. But if you study isolated
chords, any _spurious_ progressions just _might_ affect your results.

> I didn't find anyplace where there was an explanation of exactly
> what chords and tunings you were using. Is there something I was missing?

I was planning to post that info in about a week, after the participants
would have a chance to respond, without prejudice, on how they compare the
tuning in a1 _vs_ that in a2, in b1 _vs_ b2, and so on.

I wrote
> > Suppose that we agree that there is some significance in the
> >dualistic analysis (o-/u-tonality) of the V7-like chords. The
> >question arises whether it is important that the root of G#-C-D#-F#
> >is then A# (the lowest common overtone).

> [...] Paul, could you please explain what is meant by the question?

Indeed Paul has managed to grasp my point (probably because he had
already considered it before me). For _your_ sake he 'd better reply,
else I threaten to come back with my own explanation.

I am having fun surfing the waves in the Tuning List, but I think that
I should get to the reason of my subscribing, to consult y' all about the
importance of the 11th harmonic in Western Musical practice, especially
in relation to the augmented triad. I was planning to post a more detailed
set of questions, but I manage to get distracted (like seduced) every
time I go through the list messages.

Thank you for the comments (waiting for ther results, too -- no tricks, please)
- George Kahrimanis anakreon@hol.gr

--- In tuning@egroups.com, Joseph Pehrson <josephpehrson@c...> wrote:
> As to the following:
>
> > Suppose that we agree that there is some significance in the
> >dualistic analysis (o-/u-tonality) of the V7-like chords. The
> >question arises whether it is important that the root of G#-C-D#-F#
> >is then A# (the lowest common overtone).
>
> I have no answer yet to this question. In fact, Paul, could you
please
> explain what is meant by the question?? That might help.

Remember our discussions about utonal chords (you might want to go
back to our posts to refresh your memory). So in a meantone tuning
(like 31-tone equal temperament), which is what George is using, the
chord G#-C-D#-F# would approximate a 1/9:1/7:1/6:1/5 chord -- a
utonal
chord. Now according to Partch's or any other dualistic theory, the
"root" of this chord is the note 1/1 which is the lowest common
overtone (or its octave equivalents, 1/2 or 1/4 or 1/8) and
corresponds, in this temperament, to the note A#.

Now I'll draw on my knowledge from discussions with George a couple
of
years ago. The question George is trying to address with his research
is whether the note A# is somehow relevant to the harmonic function
of
this chord, particularly _in a progression_; in particular, does the
chord, when tuned this way, participate more easily in progressions
that involve other chords whose "roots" (perhaps utonal, perhaps
otonal) are consonant (in meantone) with A# than with chords whose
"roots" are not?