RE: [tuning] Zalzal Scales

Jacky wrote,

>although I did find a list of Maqam that seems to have
>came from Paul Erlich - which I have converted to cents values - from
>53 Tet

Those were the Turkish Maqam. The Arabic Maqam often have the same names but
different tuning. Here they are, quantized to 24-tET:

4 3 3 4 4 3 3 Maqam Rast
3 4 4 3 3 4 3 Maqam Sikah
4 3 3 4 3 3 4 Miha'il Musaqa's mode: Egyptian
3 4 3 4 3 4 3 Mohajira
3 3 4 4 2 4 4 Maqam 'Ushshaq Turki
3 3 4 4 2 1 3 4 Maqam Bayati
3 3 2 6 2 4 4 Maqam Saba, Maqam Mansuri
4 3 3 4 2 6 2 Maqam Suznak (Soznak)
4 3 3 4 4 2 1 3 Maqam Mahur, Maqam Dilkashidah, Maqam Rast
4 3 1 2 1 3 4 2 1 3 Maqam Yakah
3 3 4 2 6 2 4 Maqam Qarjighar
3 4 2 2 2 2 2 4 3 Maqam Huzam
3 4 2 6 2 4 3 Maqam Hizam
2 6 2 4 2 1 3 4 Maqam Hijaz
3 4 4 2 1 3 4 3 Maqam Musta'ar
3 2 6 2 4 4 3 Maqam 'Iraq
5 2 4 2 4 4 3 Maqam Bastanikar
4 2 6 2 4 2 1 3 Maqam Farah Faza, Maqam Nakriz
4 2 1 3 2 2 2 2 3 1 2 Maqam Hayyan
4 2 1 3 2 2 4 2 1 3 Maqam Basandida
4 4 2 1 3 2 2 4 2 Maqam Shawq Afza
2 1 3 2 2 4 2 4 2 2 Maqam Shawq Tarab
3 1 2 1 4 4 2 4 4 Maqam Jabburi
2 4 4 4 3 3 4 Maqam Nawa
2 5 3 4 2 5 3 Maqam Higaz-kar
3 4 4 2 4 4 3 Maqam Su'ar
3 6 1 5 2 6 1 Maqam Aug-ara
4 1 5 4 2 6 2 Maqam Buselik
4 2 6 2 2 5 3 Maqam Neuter
Note that if divided by 2, these values simply are the maqamat given in
number of Western half-steps.

Some Medieval Arabic theorists used a 17-tone Pythagorean scale: 256/243
65536/59049 9/8 32/27 8192/6561 81/64 4/3 1024/729 262144/177147 3/2 128/81
32768/19683 27/16 16/9 4096/2187 1048576/531441 2/1. The scales in this
system are much closer to the modern Turkish tunings than to the modern
Arabic tunings.
The maqamat in this system are, given as number of increments, and then
cents:

3 3 1 3 3 1 3 Safi al-Din's maqam `Ussaq
0 203.91 407.82 498.04 701.96 905.87
996.09

3 1 3 3 1 3 3 Safi al-Din's maqam Nawa
0 203.91 294.13 498.04 701.96 792.18
996.09

1 3 3 1 3 3 3 Safi al-Din's maqam Abu Salik
0 90.225 294.13 498.04 588.27 792.18
996.09

3 2 2 3 2 2 3 Safi al-Din's maqam Rast
0 203.91 384.36 498.04 701.96 882.4
996.09

2 3 2 2 3 2 2 1 Safi al-Din's maqam `Iraq
0 180.45 384.36 498.04 678.49 882.4
996.09 1176.54

3 2 2 3 2 2 2 1 Safi al-Din's maqam Isfahan
0 203.91 384.36 498.04 701.96 882.4
996.09 1176.54

2 2 3 2 2 1 3 2 Safi al-Din's maqam Zirafkand
0 180.45 294.13 498.04 678.49 792.18
882.4 1086.31

2 3 2 2 1 3 2 2 Safi al-Din's maqam Buzurk
0 180.45 384.36 498.04 678.49 701.96
905.87 1086.31

3 2 2 2 3 2 3 Safi al-Din's maqam Zankulah
0 203.91 384.36 498.04 678.49 882.4
996.09

2 3 2 2 2 3 3 Safi al-Din's maqam Rahawi
0 180.45 384.36 498.04 678.49 792.18
996.09

2 2 3 2 2 3 3 Safi al-Din's maqam Husaini
0 180.45 294.13 498.04 678.49 792.18
996.09

2 2 3 2 3 2 3 Safi al-Din's maqam Higazi
0 180.45 294.13 498.04 678.49 882.4
996.09

1 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 2 al-Kindi's mode
0 90.225 203.91 294.13 384.36 407.82
498.04
588.27 701.96 792.18 882.4 905.87 996.09
1086.31

1 2 1 2 1 1 2 1 2 1 3 Ishaq al-Mausili's mode
0 90.225 203.91 294.13 407.82 498.04
588.27
701.96 792.18 905.87 996.09

Thanks to Manuel Op de Coul for the info.

Dear jacky_ekstasis:

we were recently talking to an oud player about the intonation throughout the mid east and
in particular, the interval of Zalzal. He commented how the intonation varied from region to
region, stating for instance that the intonation in Egypt was drastically different from that
found in Iran. It was by the intonation differences in fact enabled him to tell him where the
player was from.

Although none of us speak French, we have found The 6 vol. set Musique Arabe by Erlander
to be a great source of historical records of the tuning practices thoughout these regions.
Along with the ratio you mention 11/9 and 27/22 ,13/12 is also found. Quite often a harmonic
mean is chosen with disregard to the idea of "limits".

According to the Late Amiya Dusgupta the 17-tone Persian system is what is not used in North
India to play the 22-tone srutis. 5 tones have fallen into misuse.

jacky_ekstasis@yahoo.com wrote:

> Hello to all!
>
> I'm wondering if someone would be so kind as to send me, or guide me
> to the complete Zalzal Scales (with cents values please)? I have read
> that there are many 12 pitch Zalzal scales with quarter tones - there
> are a couple of them in Scala, and one in a basic JI book I've got,
> but I would be very interested to study the construction of all of
> the known scales. Searching the internet has not turned up much of
> use to me (although I did find a list of Maqam that seems to have
> came from Paul Erlich - which I have converted to cents values - from
> 53 Tet). If any of the other listers may know how I can obtain this
> information (if it is in fact all known), then I would be eternally
> grateful. I'm seeking this information because I'm now working on a
> CD with a musician who plays a number of Arabic drums, and I would
> like to use some appropriate scales for our collaboration.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jacky
>
>
>
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--- In tuning@egroups.com, Kraig Grady <kraiggrady@a...> wrote:

> According to the Late Amiya Dusgupta the 17-tone Persian system is
what is not used in North
> India to play the 22-tone srutis. 5 tones have fallen into misuse.

Kraig, do you mean "now used" rather than "not used"? If so, it would
have to be a "mode" of the 17-tone system, since this wouldn't work
if
the 1/1s were the same. Please elaborate if possible. And surely you
mean "disuse" and not "misuse"!