Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Re: electric Harry

Tunereenos!

Gack. This looks to be long and ugly (my post, that is!)

[I'm on digest so I'll answer in the order the posts came in.]

>From: Allen Strange
>Indeed- I think it was Bewitched (1955?) that Harry used real-time
>recording/performance to record live one section of the dance to be
>played back later in the pieces at twice the speed (of course 8va
>higher).

Allen, that is a small error: Partch *never* used "live" electronics; Daniel Wolf mentions (pretty categorically) his uses of tape. The prime occurrences are in two pieces: the opening of "Revelation in the Courthouse Park" utilizes a tape of the cloud chamber bowls being played back half-speed (or they were recorded double-speed -- whatever, the effect is to drop pitch an ~octave), and more 'famously' the use of the tape in first "Windsong" and it's later counterpart, "Daphne of the Dunes". Here, Partch used recordings that were both twice as fast and twice as slow as the original: for sonic effects, for drones, for interest. The initial incarnation of the piece, as a film score, is notable for being such an early use of (relatively) primitive overdubbing, Partch having recorded all the parts himself. (Some of this can actually be seen in Madelaine Tourtelot's film "Music Studio").

I didn't remember the tape in "Water! Water!", but since it has only been produced once (the premier) I am not as familiar with it. (As an aside: when I was preparing the master tape transfers for CRI and their Partch series, I freaked out when I first put on the tape of WW, because as it came to certain sections there was a low-frequency hum that could *not* be ignored! I feared the tape had been damaged, and went to other dubs: there too. I pulled out my vinyl: ditto. I looked at the score -- every time it occurred, it was during the vigorous playing of the Marimba Eroica, one bar in particular as I recall. Huge standing wave distortion in the too-small recording room. Nothing to be done about it at this point...!)

And good call to Daniel about the extended overdubbing of "Petals...". The overdubbing in "Intrusions" was mainly circumstance (only a handful of people to do it) and would have normally been played tutti. The recording and mixing of "The Dreamer That Remains" was Partch's only encounter with a professional multi-track recording scenario, and he very much enjoyed the flexibility it gave him in the mixdowns.

Though all of this (about recording) is in contrast to Harry's true aim: live performance. Recordings were for him, at best, a compromise, a way of earnings, and a small way of encouraging others to experience his work live. He had a love/hate relationship with recordings most of his life.

>This was one of the first instances of "live electronic music" that I know of!

Well, um, I guess we debunked that! I hope you have other instances that can warm the cockles of your heart, Allen! :)

>I heard a performance last year with NewBand in San Francisco- correct me >if I am wrong about the piece and/or date.

They played "Daphne", so you heard correctly.

{Daniel Wolf}
>When he wanted a string quartet (as in _Water! Water!_, but definitely not >in _Barstow_) he asked for it.

...and stuck it in to underline, sarcastically, the politically and morally bankrupt heart of Her Honor, the Mayor of Santa Mystiana.

{DW}
>He did indeed consider electronic alternatives to the harmonium (at least >once in a less-than-serious scam to reroute research funds)

I'll mention this in a moment...

{Bill again:}
>If I fully understand your descriptions (which I likely don't), I don't see
>any major problems to electronic reproduction of the Chromelodeon.

I would suggest watching Partch play, probably at least slightly toasted, the climatic scene of "Revelation" on the Chromelodeon (solo) at the opening of the film "The Dreamer That Remains". I'd love to see that kind of physicality, as transmitted from the body into an instrument that kicks and screams and wheezes, transferred into a current keyboard/MIDI realization. I don't believe for a minute that, at least someday, physical modeling or other technology could come close to this. But the Herculean effort could be better spent find a cure for some disease or helping the homeless...or finding and retuning a reed organ.

{And now, some from Johnny Reinhard}
> > What do you mean "not been printed"?
>
>Only that the Partch I quoted had not been previously posted to this list.

Well, then say that! It read, to me, as 'never before seen the light of day'. An entirely different serving of tapioca.

>Jon, it would be helpful if you know of other ambiguities and promise to read
>through Enclosure 3 faster. It is a very heavy book.

On this subject, with a quick glance, I found a very pertinent section in Gilmore's "Harry Partch"; go directly to pages 190-191, where you will find full quotes of HP bemoaning the Chr., wanting to never use it again, the proposal and granting of a Guggenheim for "studies toward the development of an electronic instrument", and how the money instead went for purchasing lumber and other materials for Partch's instrument building. Thus were HP's priorities.

Two important points:

1. Partch, throughout his entire life (apparently) uttered completely contradictory statements, and quite frequently during times of despair. Without being entirely categorical about it, my recollection is that when he whines about the Chr. it is usually in correlation to it's upkeep and tuning, related to weather, storage conditions, and travel. It is not hard to understand that he would want a suitable alternative. I'll make up a RealAudio clip of an out-take from the "Petals" recording session, where Harry is positively whining about "I don't care..." concerning something during the recordings; it is *impossible* for Harry to have *not* cared -- he was just being petulant in Petaluma.

2. If it was so godammed important to him to have an electronic or other alternative to the Chr., seeing that (in his lifetime) he managed to build or retrofit and entire orchestra of instruments (besides the compositions, etc.), had it really been a priority *I believe he would have made it happen*. He didn't, and his music was written for, and performed on, a couple of funky old foot-pump reed organs. (Bearing in mind he made a second Bamboo Marimba, out of different bamboo with a radically different design, and had approved of the materials that eventually went into the last Boo, constructed posthumously; he was not stuck in the mud or adverse to experimentation...)

{JR}
>Dan Stearns? Could you address this issue, that of piece-mail versus a
>complete chapter and/or book?

Yes, I read Dan's post and it is what I suspect (I also remember Dan writing to this effect earlier): it is well and good to post little snippets, and use this kind of forum as a work in progress -- everyone does it here! But to make a cohesive and compelling argument of merit and weight requires a more thorough examination of the facts and issues. As you have apparantly done, and which someday I will eagerly read -- Mr. Ives being one of my more favorite humans.

{JR}
>Every scholar is biased.

All humans are biased. All scholars are human. Understood already.

>I was carefully laying my bias out for all to see.

The only self-referential comment was that you were an acoustic-oriented musician, which then would lead one to believe you would favor the Chromelodeon! And I *know* you don't want that!! :)

>Exactly, this is why Partch writing that he is not happy with the
>chromelodeon throughout much of his life is eye opening.

Harry was not happy with a lot of things in his life. They, as well, are eye opening, such as his disdain for "concerts of music", intolerance, the East Coast cognoscenti in general, etc.

>Not so, I only want to give the Internet readers a chance to read views
>contrary to the Corporeal Meadows website.

Those bastards!

>Encosure 3 is very expensive, something that Harry Parch could never have >afforded to buy in his lifetime, certainly if it was about a different >composer than himself. (This last sentence is pure speculation.)

Oh, come. Harry did all of his initial research into intonation in LIBRARIES! Including a trip to the British Museum: "The biggest initial excitement came from the long hours he spent researching the history of intonation in the British Museum, which provided access to a much more extensive library of works on intonational theory and practice than had been available to him in California." (Gilmore, p. 105). Libraries still exist, at least in large cities. The enthusiastic seeker will find a way...

>What would you suggest he is a pioneer of?

I would suggest he was a finder of ancient performance ideals, and a dreamer.

>Percussion music? Just Intonation? An Indie record company? Why not the >concept of electronics?

I find the setting of text to intonation more valuable than the percussion breakthroughs, but that's just me. But in comparison to the panorama of his accomplishments (and failures), the few connections with electronics, especially in light of their limited scope in his body of work, remain of lesser import. To me.

>Please share more with us.

Don't open the door, Johnny, you know I type too much! :)

>As a result of the your previous postings, I ceased performances of >Partch's music using electronic means.

Something I never asked you to do, BTW.

>Pardon me for receiving a shock wave when reading that Partch wished for >something that is now possible.

Pardon me for suggesting that you are reading far more into those statements than is actually there: he may have "wished" for a stable, electronic solution (and, in fact, he made similar statements on a number of occasions), but he never went down that path.

~~~~~~~~~~

Well, that's about enough for now; I hope I haven't committed any real grave errors in fact, this was a bit hurried. I'm still trying like hell to finish up some new material for the Meadows and am shockingly and morbidly behind on email correspondence. Nonetheless, Johnny wanted me to address the issue, which I guess I have, in my clumsy manner. And as for *my* biases and any that may be purveyed on the Meadows, well... those are clearly spelled out, and have been since Day One:

"This site, centering on the life and works of Partch, is maintained by people who knew him, worked with him, and are familiar with what moved him. We are one set of viewpoints..."

Just one set of viewpoints, if deeply held. YMMV.

Cheers,
Jon
`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch
http://www.corporeal.com/

🔗Carl Lumma <CLUMMA@NNI.COM>

>I don't believe for a minute that, at least someday, physical modeling
>or other technology could come close to this. But the Herculean effort
>could be better spent find a cure for some disease or helping the
>homeless...or finding and retuning a reed organ.

And imagine a stock reed organ there on stage, as compared to the object
of art that Partch called the Chromelodeon. Art can be anywhere, Jon.

>>This was one of the first instances of "live electronic music" that I
>>know of!
>
>Well, um, I guess we debunked that! I hope you have other instances that
>can warm the cockles of your heart, Allen! :)

I don't see how you've debunked it. If I understood correctly, Partch may
have been one of the first to use tape in concert. Is that insignificant?
Or is it just that your idea of Partch as warm, fuzzy bits of wood and
string doesn't jive with your idea of electronics? The use of complex
rhythms, JI, intoning voice, drama, and sculpture are all Partch innovations.
Tape seems small compared to these to me also, but why must you work so
hard to debunk it?

>>Pardon me for receiving a shock wave when reading that Partch wished for
>>something that is now possible.
>
>Pardon me for suggesting that you are reading far more into those
>statements than is actually there: he may have "wished" for a stable,
>electronic solution (and, in fact, he made similar statements on a number
>of occasions), but he never went down that path.

Pardon me for saying "pardon me", but I think you and the entire Partch-
purist camp have grossly underestimated Partch's desire for a custom
keyboard instrument. Partch's own writing and mock-ups clearly show his
desire to escape the halberstadt, for starters. But the project simply
_was_ beyond his means, in that it would have come at the cost of too much
of the rest of his orchestra. Once he accepted the re-tuned reed organs,
naturally he created great music for them, for which they are intimately
suited, and perhaps even irreplaceable! But all instruments have quirks
worthy of a good composition. . .

Partch was a composer who first sought out new resources, then picked them,
and finally evolved work for them. With the middle step, he realized that
he would have settle on certain things, or else he'd never see the last
step. By "40 years too late", he implies that he could have done great
things if he could have worked with the Scalatron. Importantly, Partch
would have written great stuff _no matter what medium he worked in_. He
even takes the time to tell us that his choices were somewhat expedient,
and asks us not to be bound by the same compromises he had to make!

Incidentally, I've never caught Partch contradicting himself, and I'd be
interested to see where you think he does this. Gilmore states this too,
but every one of his examples reveal a gross misunderstanding of the man
and his work.

-Carl

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

Carl Lumma wrote:

>And imagine a stock reed organ there on stage, as compared to the object
>of art that Partch called the Chromelodeon. Art can be anywhere, Jon.

I didn't say "stock", youngster, and I didn't say unadorned. HP started with stock reed organs, save for the original Chromelodeon, which was lost, that he "says" he built from the ground up in London (see Gilmore, etc.)

Thanks -- I realize art can be anywhere. But while it *can* be, it frequently *isn't*.

> >>This was one of the first instances of "live electronic music" that I
> >>know of!
> >
> >Well, um, I guess we debunked that! I hope you have other instances that
> >can warm the cockles of your heart, Allen! :)
>
>I don't see how you've debunked it.

Because he said "live electronic music" and to me that does *not* mean turning on a tape recorder. If turning on a tape recorder and playing a prerecorded tape means "live electronic music" to you, Carl, than so be it. That is all I meant.

>If I understood correctly, Partch may have been one of the first to use >tape in concert. Is that insignificant?

No, just different, and a difference worth pointing out. And the significance varies from person to person: IMHO, tape to Harry was a *very* small part of his overall thrust.

>Or is it just that your idea of Partch as warm, fuzzy bits of wood and
>string doesn't jive with your idea of electronics?

You don't have any idea of how I feel about electronics, do you? In general?

>The use of complex rhythms, JI, intoning voice, drama, and sculpture are >all Partch innovations. Tape seems small compared to these to me also, but >why must you work so hard to debunk it?

Well, again, just the *live* part was *all* I referred to.

>Pardon me for saying "pardon me", but I think you and the entire Partch-
>purist camp have grossly underestimated Partch's desire for a custom
>keyboard instrument.

Yes, Carl, I probably have no idea what I am talking about.

>Partch's own writing and mock-ups clearly show his desire to escape the >halberstadt, for starters.

I never said he didn't have the desire, on occasion, to have a better solution.

>Once he accepted the re-tuned reed organs, naturally he created great >music for them, for which they are intimately suited, and perhaps even >irreplaceable!

Um, my point exactly!

>Partch was a composer who first sought out new resources, then picked them,
>and finally evolved work for them. With the middle step, he realized that
>he would have settle on certain things, or else he'd never see the last
>step. By "40 years too late", he implies that he could have done great
>things if he could have worked with the Scalatron.

Or by "too late" he may have very well meant it would have made life easier on him, not that it would have altered the music that much. You see, Carl, I was working with Partch around the time he was saying that, and he was a weary, weary man.

>He even takes the time to tell us that his choices were somewhat >expedient, and asks us not to be bound by the same compromises he had to make!

To which I agree. You can feel free to construct Megalyres or compose in Csound if you wish.

>Incidentally, I've never caught Partch contradicting himself

Then you have lots of reading to do, because I don't have the time to point out even the beginnings of his inherent contradictions. Hell, his life was a contradiction, but I have to go to work this morning...

>and I'd be interested to see where you think he does this.

Later.

>Gilmore states this too, but every one of his examples reveal a >gross misunderstanding of the man and his work.

Wow. Bob and I have totally missed the boat on Harry. Amazing...

Cheers all,
Jon

`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`'`
Real Life: Orchestral Percussionist
Web Life: "Corporeal Meadows" - about Harry Partch
http://www.corporeal.com/

Re: electric Harry

🔗Allen Strange <ASTRANGE@EMAIL.SJSU.EDU>

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Carl Lumma <CLUMMA@NNI.COM>

🔗Jonathan M. Szanto <JSZANTO@ADNC.COM>

🔗Bill Alves <ALVES@ORION.AC.HMC.EDU>