a new music

Lumma just quoted Erlich (?), who commented about looking for a new
paradigm for music, one that didn't draw on any of the traditional ways
of playing...that sure brings up some interesting vistas. What facets of
music, for example, are inescapable? Tension/release? Scales? Notes?
Vibrations? Would music in a galaxy billions of light years away sound
different than ours? How about the Krell music in "Forbidden Planet?"
How WOULD one come up with something totally "new?" Do new things
necessarily build on the past, or can something totally unrelated to
what came before be created in music?Are we, as humans, bound by certain
limits, which we can never transcend? This music would be new compared
to what? Was bebop new? Debussy's concepts? Hendrix and feedback/sounds?
I would love to hear what Erlich means...perhaps he would care to
elaborate...or better yet, demonstrate aurally...it's a fascinating
idea, to be sure...It reminds me a bit of a student of mine(18 years
old), who didn't want to learn scales or chords, or anyone else's music,
and wanted to come up with something totaly different from everyone
else. I am indeed curious as to how that could happen...and I am not
saying it couldn't. I would love to hear it. I hope Paul's idea is not
simply an empty intellectual exercise...to put it into practice would
be, indeed, a quantum leap...Hstick

I found your pondering of "new music"
interesting, Niel. Don't mean to be
pessimistic, but as Barenaked Ladies
sang in a great song I just saw on TV
the other night: "It's all been done before".

I'm afraid I have to agree. Such is our
predicament as we enter the new millenium.

- monz
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I thought I should elaborate on my
last post.

Anyone familiar with the works of the
Fluxus movement (and other New York
composers of the early 1960s) would probably
be as pessimistic as myself about hearing
any really new music - especially since
at this late date we've already got Hendrix
and rappers.

La Monte Young in particular, before he
started writing the kinds of extended-chord
JI pieces he now composes, wrote a series
of pieces called "Composition 1960", where
almost anything could happen. They consisted
of written instructions, such as one piece
that said (I'm paraphrasing):

> "A butterfly is released into the hall. The
> butterfly may fly anywhere. After a prescribed
> period of time, or when the butterfly flies out
> a window, the piece is over."

And of course, this whole idea may have
originated with John Cage's famous "4:33",
(for any ensemble), where the performer/s
sit/s in front of the instrument silently for
4 minutes and 33 seconds, the idea being to
focus the audience's attention on the usually
ignored sounds present in the hall.

There is no mention of any musical stuff in
most of Youngs "compositions" of 1960.
Admittedly, many critics of this movement have
been justified in saying that it scarcely has
anything to do with music, but that is precisely
my point (and probably Young's too): when
anything that can happen can be referred to
as a "piece", what else new is there to do?

The only really new things I hear in music
since the early 1960s are the two things mentioned
above: Jimi Hendrix and rap. Hendrix not only
entirely revolutionized the playing of the guitar,
but completely overhauled anyone's idea of
what music was, by using incredible amounts
of distortion, feedback, noise, and most of all,
unbelievably high volume, in his performances.

And rappers have completely destroyed the
idea of what constitutes a "melody" in the
traditional sense - but really, historically,
many types of music that emphasize the
importance of verbal utterance have done
this before. Partch enumerates quite a few
in the first section of "Genesis". To me, what
the good rappers (i.e., Public Enemy, IceT) did
that was really interesting musically was
combining samples - bits of pre-recorded
music - in totally heterogenous ways, giving
all kinds of polytonality and polymeters.

After that, it's hard to imagine anything really
new - and I'm a very imaginative person. Of
course I like the idea of finding some kind of
music that's never been heard before, but I
really doubt that it can be done now.

I suppose that most of us who are into microtones
are striving for something like this. But I thought
I'd invented a really useful new theory, and the more
research I do, the more I find:

"it's all been done before".

- monz
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Dear Mr. Monzo
I would Gladly discuss w/you this concept of "new" music. Is Hendrix just a
demarcation line of the new?
I felt that the Yardbirds explored distortion before Hendrix,but I'm
thinking more in the Rave-up/"Happenings 10 Years time Ago" vibe. Definitely
Hendrix made it "popular" but then we move into "entertainment" which is a
sticky subject. Rap like most new "popular music" is a bastard child of
DISCO
Yes That's right,you guessed right,
Disco won.
Rock and Roll is a lifeless corporate sham.
We have returned to the stage that we were in before Elvis,The Beatles,Punk
began
Teeny bopper,ice cream,pre-fabs,....yes they were always here you
say....Monkees....Menudo.....NKOTB....
But now they are all that there is
Lets feed the Piano some hay and see if it eats,.......

Joseph L Monzo wrote:

> From: Joseph L Monzo <monz@juno.com>
>
> I thought I should elaborate on my
> last post.
>
> Anyone familiar with the works of the
> Fluxus movement (and other New York
> composers of the early 1960s) would probably
> be as pessimistic as myself about hearing
> any really new music - especially since
> at this late date we've already got Hendrix
> and rappers.
>
> La Monte Young in particular, before he
> started writing the kinds of extended-chord
> JI pieces he now composes, wrote a series
> of pieces called "Composition 1960", where
> almost anything could happen. They consisted
> of written instructions, such as one piece
> that said (I'm paraphrasing):
>
> > "A butterfly is released into the hall. The
> > butterfly may fly anywhere. After a prescribed
> > period of time, or when the butterfly flies out
> > a window, the piece is over."
>
> And of course, this whole idea may have
> originated with John Cage's famous "4:33",
> (for any ensemble), where the performer/s
> sit/s in front of the instrument silently for
> 4 minutes and 33 seconds, the idea being to
> focus the audience's attention on the usually
> ignored sounds present in the hall.
>
> There is no mention of any musical stuff in
> most of Youngs "compositions" of 1960.
> Admittedly, many critics of this movement have
> been justified in saying that it scarcely has
> anything to do with music, but that is precisely
> my point (and probably Young's too): when
> anything that can happen can be referred to
> as a "piece", what else new is there to do?
>
> The only really new things I hear in music
> since the early 1960s are the two things mentioned
> above: Jimi Hendrix and rap. Hendrix not only
> entirely revolutionized the playing of the guitar,
> but completely overhauled anyone's idea of
> what music was, by using incredible amounts
> of distortion, feedback, noise, and most of all,
> unbelievably high volume, in his performances.
>
> And rappers have completely destroyed the
> idea of what constitutes a "melody" in the
> traditional sense - but really, historically,
> many types of music that emphasize the
> importance of verbal utterance have done
> this before. Partch enumerates quite a few
> in the first section of "Genesis". To me, what
> the good rappers (i.e., Public Enemy, IceT) did
> that was really interesting musically was
> combining samples - bits of pre-recorded
> music - in totally heterogenous ways, giving
> all kinds of polytonality and polymeters.
>
> After that, it's hard to imagine anything really
> new - and I'm a very imaginative person. Of
> course I like the idea of finding some kind of
> music that's never been heard before, but I
> really doubt that it can be done now.
>
> I suppose that most of us who are into microtones
> are striving for something like this. But I thought
> I'd invented a really useful new theory, and the more
> research I do, the more I find:
>
> "it's all been done before".
>
> - monz
> ___________________________________________________________________
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By the way, with computer technology,
now we *can* feed the piano some hay
*and* watch it eat!

|\=/|.-"""-. Joseph L. Monzo......................monz@juno.com
/6 6\ \ http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
=\_Y_/= (_ ;\ c/o Sonic Arts, PO Box 620027, San Diego, CA, USA
_U//_/-/__/// || "The ability of the human ear is ||
/monz\ ((jgs; || vastly underestimated" - Harry Partch ||

___________________________________________________________________
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Yes!
thanks to the Wonderful Manuel & clarification of Mister Randy.I was able to
do the full midi-dump of the Well Tuned Piano frequencies to my midi synth
and let Koan do the rest of the work.
The piano is dining as I type.
By the way I did not mean to disrespect the Late great Jimi Hendrix only
stating that a few english blokes were kicking the feedback vibe a little
earlier, I just have always preferred FZ's aural sculptures to Hendrix--not
that he was,nt an innovator. and i do subscribe to the maxim
KILL UGLY RADIO
take care Joe
see you soon
You can smack me then-no pun intended,
Pat

Joseph L Monzo wrote:

> From: Joseph L Monzo <monz@juno.com>
>
> By the way, with computer technology,
> now we *can* feed the piano some hay
> *and* watch it eat!
>
> |\=/|.-"""-. Joseph L. Monzo......................monz@juno.com
> /6 6\ \ http://www.ixpres.com/interval/monzo/homepage.html
> =\_Y_/= (_ ;\ c/o Sonic Arts, PO Box 620027, San Diego, CA, USA
> _U//_/-/__/// || "The ability of the human ear is ||
> /monz\ ((jgs; || vastly underestimated" - Harry Partch ||
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
> or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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