Re: [tuning] Re: Variability of intervals in Indian music (and related topics)

pvallad1 wrote:
>
> I have studied with Suman Ghosh who is currently a disciple of Pandit Jasraj.
>
> I asked him about the harmonium that he brings to class and he confirmed that
> the octaves on that instrument are indeed divided into 12 equal intervals.
> Which makes sense as it was imported as an early form of the accordion by the
> Portuguese.
>
> On the other hand, he has cautioned students with this statement: "Do not
> follow the harmonium when you practice your singing. The harmonium follows
> you". Now, English is not his native language, so I guess that statement
> could be interpreted various ways.

He's telling you to ignore the harmonium while
you're singing.

> Mine is that its ok to use the harmonium
> if you are a beginning vocal student (such as myself) and trying to get a
> rough handle on the raags, but don't use it as a crutch. He also advised that
> it is preferable to practice with a drone instrument such as a tambura (or an
> "electric tambura" box like the one he brings to class) rather than with a
> harmonium.

That's right. When you hear how all the rags
are in the drone of a tabura, what they are really
saying is all the intervals of raga tuning are there
in the overtones of the drone.

When I first started singing lessons last September,
I tried to practice with a vibrato free reed organ patch
on one of my synths (tuned 1/1. 3/2). No go! I had real
problems singing simple intervals in a diatonic scale.
When I got my paws on a tambura cd, it all became much
easier!

> When I saw P. Jasraj in concert with Suman and others, there was a harmonium
> player involved. He did not provide the drone (there were four tambura
> players onstage already), but instead played raags himself on his harmonium,
> thus functioning as just another "voice" on stage. P. Jasraj occasionally
> also accompanied his vocals with his own harp-like instrument,

Swarmandal?

> but he always
> tuned it between raags. He did not appear to use the harmonium to guide his
> tuning - I think he was using the drone boxes then tuning the other strings to
> the desired raag on that base drone note.

That's right.

>
> Next time I see Suman-ji, I will ask him if harmonium players "tune" their
> harmoniums for concerts.

Probably not.

> If not, I suspect the way the pitch ornamentations
> of the vocalists are reconciled with harmoniums (if a player is present) is
> very similar to the way a blues harmonica player would play with a pianist.
> I'll try to ask him about this too. But keep him mind that while he is very
> intelligent and his English quite good, he is not likely to understand me if I
> use the words "7-limit just intonation" and the like; I'm trying to learn
> these concepts myself!

I think the singing would be compromised. Prandit Pran Nath
was against harmoniums. Mashkor Ali Khan, a younger distant
cousin, however uses a Swarmandal and a harmonium. A few
of his American students are trying to talk him out of
the harmonium.

nada bhrama,
db

--
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*
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Very strange -- this e-mail was not in my inbox, but today I'm
posting from egroups.com, and this message was here. I wonder how
many others I've missed in the past?

--- In tuning@egroups.com, David Beardsley <xouoxno@v...> wrote...