interesting examples from classical literature

Dear community,
I'm searching for examples of the classical/romantical standard repertoire,
which are somewhat delicate concerning the question of intonation.
It's for discussing them with students.
I'm always a little bit angry if one says "a major third must always be
lower".
Off course, this can be the case but sometimes other choices are possible.
If You know one or more examples which could be played in different ways
(concerning the aspect of intonation) please let me know!

Johnny Reinhard of the American Festival of Microtonal Music says he has
hard evidence that Charles Ives was thinking in terms of extended
Pythagorean tuning at least by the Universe Symphony if not before. Perhaps
that is too recent for you?

his email is at the bottom of this page

http://www.afmm.org/

However, I'm puzzled because meantone historically was the rule, not the
exception, well into the 19th century. There is proof in the form of
instruments like organs throughout Europe.

Regards,

Chris

On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Stefan Thomas
<kontrapunktstefan@...>wrote:

>
>
> Dear community,
> I'm searching for examples of the classical/romantical standard
> repertoire, which are somewhat delicate concerning the question of
> intonation.
> It's for discussing them with students.
> I'm always a little bit angry if one says "a major third must always be
> lower".
> Off course, this can be the case but sometimes other choices are possible.
> If You know one or more examples which could be played in different ways
> (concerning the aspect of intonation) please let me know!
>
>
>

Dear Chris,
maybee meantone was the standard in 19th century, but I've been asking for
orchestra-literature.
I don't think that orchestras play in fixed tunings, they are flexible in
that point.
I'm searching for examples like a leading-note becoming the fifth of the
following chord, or examples which make use of enharmonic modulation.
In examples like that, at least in my opinion, You have to make a decision
and I think, that are sometimes more than one possibility.

2014/1/3 Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...>

>
>
> Johnny Reinhard of the American Festival of Microtonal Music says he has
> hard evidence that Charles Ives was thinking in terms of extended
> Pythagorean tuning at least by the Universe Symphony if not before. Perhaps
> that is too recent for you?
>
> his email is at the bottom of this page
>
> http://www.afmm.org/
>
> However, I'm puzzled because meantone historically was the rule, not the
> exception, well into the 19th century. There is proof in the form of
> instruments like organs throughout Europe.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 2, 2014 at 8:25 AM, Stefan Thomas <kontrapunktstefan@...
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Dear community,
>> I'm searching for examples of the classical/romantical standard
>> repertoire, which are somewhat delicate concerning the question of
>> intonation.
>> It's for discussing them with students.
>> I'm always a little bit angry if one says "a major third must always be
>> lower".
>> Off course, this can be the case but sometimes other choices are possible.
>> If You know one or more examples which could be played in different ways
>> (concerning the aspect of intonation) please let me know!
>>
>>
>
>

Chris,

By "extended Pythagorean tuning" do you mean a 53-division of the octave? This is analogous to using:

19-division for extended third-comma Meantone;
31-division for extended quarter-comma Meantone;
43-division for extended fifth-comma Meantone; and
55-division for extended sixth-comma Meantone,

as used by Ross Duffin on pages 55 and 92 of "How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony."
Duffin also mentioned the 53-division system on pages 135-136, and the 50-division system.

I should also add that the 12-division piano system is virtually extended 11th-comma Meantone tuning.

Could add [if you stretch the definition of meantone] Pythagorean:

Pythagorean is zero-comma Meantone;
12-division ET is 11th-comma Meantone;
19-division for extended third-comma Meantone, [is not 18th comma MT];
31-division for extended quarter-comma Meantone, [etc.];
43-division for extended fifth-comma Meantone; and
55-division for extended sixth-comma Meantone.

ƒg

On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 11:12 AM, <glenn.leider@...> wrote:

>
>
> Chris,
>
> By "extended Pythagorean tuning" do you mean a 53-division of the octave?
> This is analogous to using:
>
> 19-division for extended third-comma Meantone;
> 31-division for extended quarter-comma Meantone;
> 43-division for extended fifth-comma Meantone; and
> 55-division for extended sixth-comma Meantone,
>
> as used by Ross Duffin on pages 55 and 92 of "How Equal Temperament Ruined
> Harmony."
> Duffin also mentioned the 53-division system on pages 135-136, and the
> 50-division system.
>
> I should also add that the 12-division piano system is virtually extended
> 11th-comma Meantone tuning.
>
>

Also 88edo and LucyTuning derived from pi.

On 3 Jan 2014, at 19:59, Freeman Gilmore wrote:

>
> Could add [if you stretch the definition of meantone] Pythagorean:
>
> Pythagorean is zero-comma Meantone;
> 12-division ET is 11th-comma Meantone;
> 19-division for extended third-comma Meantone, [is not 18th comma MT];
> 31-division for extended quarter-comma Meantone, [etc.];
> 43-division for extended fifth-comma Meantone; and
> 55-division for extended sixth-comma Meantone.
>
> ƒg
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 11:12 AM, <glenn.leider@...> wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> By "extended Pythagorean tuning" do you mean a 53-division of the octave? This is analogous to using:
>
> 19-division for extended third-comma Meantone;
> 31-division for extended quarter-comma Meantone;
> 43-division for extended fifth-comma Meantone; and
> 55-division for extended sixth-comma Meantone,
>
> as used by Ross Duffin on pages 55 and 92 of "How Equal Temperament Ruined Harmony."
> Duffin also mentioned the 53-division system on pages 135-136, and the 50-division system.
>
> I should also add that the 12-division piano system is virtually extended 11th-comma Meantone tuning.
>
>
>
>

Charles Lucy
lucy@...

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