Intonation perception

Hello all,

I am currently working on my masters thesis. Subject is intonation sense, comparing two shakuhachi players who each have their own unique and highly developed way of playing. My analysis method is empirical, but the thesis is performance oriented, aimed at musicians who want to refine their sense of intonation.

I am wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction with some questions....

Firstly, I am wondering about the correlation between tone quality and intonation discrimination. I have heard a number of anecdotal accounts of how one player, who played with a gentler tone, would sound less out of tune to a listener when his intonation was slightly off, as opposed to another player with a harder tone, who would be perceived as being out of tune much more quickly (in both cases, during ensemble performance with a string instrument). Since the ear is more sensitive and discriminating when it comes to higher pitches, does it follow that a low to mid range pitch with a lot of upper harmonic content will be subject to a higher level of pitch discrimination than the same pitch played softly, with less defined harmonics? I am looking for any info, especially academic papers that deal with this, on any instrument.

I am also interested in reading more on formant control when it comes to wind instruments. It's not hard to find papers related to opera singers, but very little hard info on wind.

More questions will probably follow. I have not given a lot of info here, but if anyone here is particularly acquainted with the subject at hand, any input would be most highly appreciated.

Lindsay

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Lindsay D <komuso@...> wrote:
>

> I am wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction with some questions....
>
> Firstly, I am wondering about the correlation between tone quality and intonation discrimination. I have heard a number of anecdotal accounts of how one player, who played with a gentler tone, would sound less out of tune to a listener when his intonation was slightly off, as opposed to another player with a harder tone, who would be perceived as being out of tune much more quickly (in both cases, during ensemble performance with a string instrument).

First and foremost, if you want to really get anywhere with these very interesting questions, you have to define your terms and then move things into the realm of objectivity. What do you mean by exactly by "intonation discrimination"? It seems you are talking about a harmonic context (i.e. playing an interval with another instrument). Is it plucked or bowed string? That question is very importnat, because all plucked strings are inharmonic, and all bowed strings are hamonic. Is there vibrato involved on either instrument? That makes the topic extremely thorny, because essentially there is no objectively verifiable pitch of the note. And by what standard are you defining the "correct" intonation? Pure tuning against another instrument? 12EDO? Something else? Next, objectify your terms. What do you mean by "softer" and "harder" sound? Buy a good FFT flexible program (not the clunky limited FFT you can get in free software like Audacity) and look at the spectral content. Once you've got that sorted out, do some controlled double-blind experiments with "soft" and "hard" tones to see if the anecdotal evidence is repeatable or just empty talk.

I don't think the ear is better with pitch perception of brighter (i.e. more harmonic content) tones because it is more sensitive to higher frequencies. In a melodic sense, a brighter tone simply gives the brain more information to go on. Everyone knows the "missing fundamental" effect, aka resultant tones. So if there are at least several harmonics present, the brain has a number of different routes which all (eventually) lead to the same conclusion. In an harmonic context, if the other tone is also fairly bright, there again the brain simply has more things to compare, and the more high harmonics, the easier it is to hear the flanging effect of even slightly detuned unisons or simple harmonic intervals.

RE: formants and wind instruments. I remember running across an article about the effects of vocal tract formants on clarinet tone some time back, can't remember where, but if you dig around, you should find it.

Good luck!

Ciao,

P

Lindsay,
It is slightly of track, but you might be interested with paralells with string playing. If you bow closer to the bridge the sound is said to be more focused, louder and if not done well 'shrill' sound that contains more higher harmonics in much greater prominence in the sound, than if you bow closer to the fingerboard and middle of the string where get a more diffuse 'dreamy' far away and softer sound. I have also heard the playing closer to the bridge as sounding more like a clarinet and playing closer to the fingerboard as more like a flute.
 
Do you know the of the phenomomen that if you play in a 5 limit tuning it will sound a lot softer than in equal temperament?
Another thing I think of is the great John Coltrane was always said to play on the sharp edge of note, but he never actually went sharp. I guess you are more interested in issues of intonation than issues of the sound receeding or coming forward but perhaps they are related. Sorry I can't help you with articles etc but could I also suggest you ask your questions to the JustIntonation yahoo group. There are some great musicians in that group, as well as some great scholars so you might find some joy there. You may need to join the group though you can leave when you want of course: Just Intonation <JustIntonation@yahoogroups.com>;
 
So as I understand it tone quality is about the ADSR profile of the partials. To improve intonation you need to listen to the beats between partials as well as the fundamental. String players often get a refined sense of discrimination because there is always relationship between the notes played and the sympathetic resonance of the other strings so who all the partials beat together gives vital info about intonation. With the shakuaichi I would imagine it is best played in a space with some resonance so that the upper partials would still be reverbing in the air whilst the next notes are being played.
 
Hope some of this is interesting.
 
Cheers
Steven

________________________________
From: Lindsay D <komuso@...>
To: "tuning@yahoogroups.com" <tuning@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 19 June 2013 1:03 PM
Subject: [tuning] Intonation perception

Hello all,I am currently working on my masters thesis. Subject is intonation sense, comparing two shakuhachi players who each have their own unique and highly developed way of playing. My analysis method is empirical, but the thesis is performance oriented, aimed at musicians who want to refine their sense of intonation.I am wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction with some questions....Firstly, I am wondering about the correlation between tone quality and intonation discrimination. I have heard a number of anecdotal accounts of how one player, who played with a gentler tone, would sound less out of tune to a listener when his intonation was slightly off, as opposed to another player with a harder tone, who would be perceived as being out of tune much more quickly (in both cases, during ensemble performance with a string instrument). Since the ear is more sensitive and discriminating when it comes to higher pitches, does it follow that a
low to mid range pitch with a lot of upper harmonic content will be subject to a higher level of pitch discrimination than the same pitch played softly, with less defined harmonics? I am looking for any info, especially academic papers that deal with this, on any instrument. I am also interested in reading more on formant control when it comes to wind instruments. It's not hard to find papers related to opera singers, but very little hard info on wind.More questions will probably follow. I have not given a lot of info here, but if anyone here is particularly acquainted with the subject at hand, any input would be most highly appreciated.Lindsay