major thirds tuning

Hi,
I am a new member, an experienced pianist now learning the guitar. After a lot of self-teaching via the Mel Bay type of books, in which I never got over the chaos in the standard guitar tuning caused by the inconsisitency in the intervals between strings, I have gone to major thirds. I think this is me. But I need to know:
1) is it advisable to get different strings up top, where they are getting detuned, as much as from E to C?
2) where can I get material to learn by? Such as easy arrangements to whatever songs in this tuning?
Steve

Hi Steve,

Can you describe your guitar? It makes a difference if it is a steel string
acoustic, classical with nylon strings, or an electric.

A general answer is this:

two effects can be noticed, with time, when detuning down by a fair amount

1. The neck will tend to lose some of its relief - may or may not be a
problem
2. Sometimes the intonation of the strings will be a bit off. again, may or
may not be a problem.

Electrics are great because they have hardware that can easily be adjusted
to take care most changes. I have bought "not even slinky" string sets and
tuned a regular electric to baritone tuning and with a bit of bridge
adjusting the intonation is fine.

There is a *ton* of guitar adjustment information, electric and acoustic,
on the internet - here is one to start with

http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/instruments/7-steps-to-setting-up-your-guitar/

Chris

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 11:57 PM, v <marshappynation@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi,
> I am a new member, an experienced pianist now learning the guitar. After a
> lot of self-teaching via the Mel Bay type of books, in which I never got
> over the chaos in the standard guitar tuning caused by the inconsisitency
> in the intervals between strings, I have gone to major thirds. I think this
> is me. But I need to know:
> 1) is it advisable to get different strings up top, where they are getting
> detuned, as much as from E to C?
> 2) where can I get material to learn by? Such as easy arrangements to
> whatever songs in this tuning?
> Steve
>
>
>

Steve,

I had to look up the major thirds tuning on wikipedia to find out what it is. If you think it works for you, then great. The standard guitar tuning is kind of meant to be playing chords by strumming most or all of the strings. Chris Vaisvil pointed you to some resources. After looking at the tuning, if you tune your strings down to where the lowest pitch string (top one positionally) stays at E (you don't tune up) and the higher pitched strings come down respectively, I suspect you will be okay unless the higher pitched strings which are looser start to buzz -- then it is just an annoyance at that point.

As for finding material to learn by -- I haven't noticed any, you may need to work things out by hand -- which you can do since you can find the notes.

Jay

Quoting v <marshappynation@...>:

> Hi,
> I am a new member, an experienced pianist now learning the guitar. > After a lot of self-teaching via the Mel Bay type of books, in which > I never got over the chaos in the standard guitar tuning caused by > the inconsisitency in the intervals between strings, I have gone to > major thirds. I think this is me. But I need to know:
> 1) is it advisable to get different strings up top, where they are > getting detuned, as much as from E to C?
> 2) where can I get material to learn by? Such as easy arrangements > to whatever songs in this tuning?
> Steve
>
>

Hi!

I wrote a short pamphlet discussing major-thirds tuning and giving fundamental chords, which is free at the Wikimedia Commons:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File%3AMajor_thirds_tuning_guitar_chords_1.pdf

String gauges have been tabulated on the talk page of the Wikipedia article on major-thirds tuning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Major_thirds_tuning#Gauges_for_strings

Major-thirds tuning (M3) Gb/=Ab- E C Gb39;=Ab- E C Gb/=Ab- E C
M3 Ralph Patt [3] (24 5/8 inches)[1] .007-8[2] .010[2] .013p[2] .022w[3] .026w[3] .032w[3] .042w[3] .052[3]
M3 Ole Kirkeby (round wound) (25.5 inches) .010p .013p .020w .028w .036w .044w .052w
M3 KW (Light, 25.25 inches) .008-9 .010p .0135p .022w .028w .035w .044w .055-.056w 0.052-0.60 (or 0.064 by calculator)
Gypsy tuning ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Gypsy light .010p .014p .023w .026w .034w .044w
Gypsy medium .011p .015p .024w .028w .035w .045w
Open-G DBG-DBG-D D B G D B G D
Russian 7-string .012 .014 .019 .024 .030 .039 .051

^ Usually 24 5/8 inches; sometimes 24 1/8 or 23 9/16 (Peterson, 2002, p. 43).
^ a b c D'Addario
^ a b c d e Elixer Nanoweb, e.g. Custom Lights

There was recent discussion related to this query at the jazz-guitar discussion group.

Best regards,
Kiefer

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, jrinkel@... wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> I had to look up the major thirds tuning on wikipedia to find out what it is.
>
> Jay
>
> Quoting v <marshappynation@...>:
>
> > Hi,
> > I need to know:
> > 1) is it advisable to get different strings up top, where they are
> > getting detuned, as much as from E to C?
> > 2) where can I get material to learn by?
> > Steve

Hey, just so you know - this list is described as being for "alternate
tunings," but what we really mean is that it's for alternative tuning
systems. All of the tunings that you describe for a guitar are still
based on the underlying 12-EDO (equal divisions of the octave) tuning
system, with 12 equally spaced notes per octave. In contrast, this
list typically deals with exploring other tuning systems, such as
19-EDO and 22-EDO.

So I have to say, I think your major third tuning is great, but I
think it'd be even better if the thirds were 379 cents, and the frets
were set to 19-EDO! Then three thirds doesn't make an octave, but five
thirds makes a perfect twelfth. :)

Mike

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 5:40 PM, kiefer_wolfowitz
<kiefer.wolfowitz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> I wrote a short pamphlet discussing major-thirds tuning and giving fundamental chords, which is free at the Wikimedia Commons:
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File%3AMajor_thirds_tuning_guitar_chords_1.pdf
>
> String gauges have been tabulated on the talk page of the Wikipedia article on major-thirds tuning:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Major_thirds_tuning#Gauges_for_strings
>
> Major-thirds tuning (M3) G♯=A♭ E C G♯=A♭ E C G♯=A♭ E C
> M3 Ralph Patt [3] (24 5/8 inches)[1] .007-8[2] .010[2] .013p[2] .022w[3] .026w[3] .032w[3] .042w[3] .052[3]
> M3 Ole Kirkeby (round wound) (25.5 inches) .010p .013p .020w .028w .036w .044w .052w
> M3 KW (Light, 25.25 inches) .008-9 .010p .0135p .022w .028w .035w .044w .055-.056w 0.052-0.60 (or 0.064 by calculator)
> Gypsy tuning ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> Gypsy light .010p .014p .023w .026w .034w .044w
> Gypsy medium .011p .015p .024w .028w .035w .045w
> Open-G DBG-DBG-D D B G D B G D
> Russian 7-string .012 .014 .019 .024 .030 .039 .051
>
> ^ Usually 24 5/8 inches; sometimes 24 1/8 or 23 9/16 (Peterson, 2002, p. 43).
> ^ a b c D'Addario
> ^ a b c d e Elixer Nanoweb, e.g. Custom Lights
>
> There was recent discussion related to this query at the jazz-guitar discussion group.
>
> Best regards,
> Kiefer
>
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, jrinkel@... wrote:
> >
> > Steve,
> >
> > I had to look up the major thirds tuning on wikipedia to find out what it is.
> >
> > Jay
> >
> > Quoting v <marshappynation@...>:
> >
> > > Hi,
>
> > > I need to know:
> > > 1) is it advisable to get different strings up top, where they are
> > > getting detuned, as much as from E to C?
> > > 2) where can I get material to learn by?
> > > Steve

Open tunings approximating major-thirds tuning often eschew 12TET.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtones_tuning#Major-third_interval_in_just_intonation

-Kiefer

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> Hey, just so you know - this list is described as being for "alternate
> tunings," but what we really mean is that it's for alternative tuning
> systems. All of the tunings that you describe for a guitar are still
> based on the underlying 12-EDO (equal divisions of the octave) tuning
> system, with 12 equally spaced notes per octave. In contrast, this
> list typically deals with exploring other tuning systems, such as
> 19-EDO and 22-EDO.
>
> So I have to say, I think your major third tuning is great, but I
> think it'd be even better if the thirds were 379 cents, and the frets
> were set to 19-EDO! Then three thirds doesn't make an octave, but five
> thirds makes a perfect twelfth. :)
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 5:40 PM, kiefer_wolfowitz
> <kiefer.wolfowitz@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > I wrote a short pamphlet discussing major-thirds tuning and giving fundamental chords, which is free at the Wikimedia Commons:
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File%3AMajor_thirds_tuning_guitar_chords_1.pdf
> >
> > String gauges have been tabulated on the talk page of the Wikipedia article on major-thirds tuning:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Major_thirds_tuning#Gauges_for_strings
> >
> > Major-thirds tuning (M3) Gb/=Ab- E C Gb/=Ab- E C Gb/=Ab- E C
> > M3 Ralph Patt [3] (24 5/8 inches)[1] .007-8[2] .010[2] .013p[2] .022w[3] .026w[3] .032w[3] .042w[3] .052[3]
> > M3 Ole Kirkeby (round wound) (25.5 inches) .010p .013p .020w .028w .036w .044w .052w
> > M3 KW (Light, 25.25 inches) .008-9 .010p .0135p .022w .028w .035w .044w .055-.056w 0.052-0.60 (or 0.064 by calculator)
> > Gypsy tuning ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
> > Gypsy light .010p .014p .023w .026w .034w .044w
> > Gypsy medium .011p .015p .024w .028w .035w .045w
> > Open-G DBG-DBG-D D B G D B G D
> > Russian 7-string .012 .014 .019 .024 .030 .039 .051
> >
> > ^ Usually 24 5/8 inches; sometimes 24 1/8 or 23 9/16 (Peterson, 2002, p. 43).
> > ^ a b c D'Addario
> > ^ a b c d e Elixer Nanoweb, e.g. Custom Lights
> >
> > There was recent discussion related to this query at the jazz-guitar discussion group.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Kiefer
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, jrinkel@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > >
> > > I had to look up the major thirds tuning on wikipedia to find out what it is.
> > >
> > > Jay
> > >
> > > Quoting v <marshappynation@>:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> >
> > > > I need to know:
> > > > 1) is it advisable to get different strings up top, where they are
> > > > getting detuned, as much as from E to C?
> > > > 2) where can I get material to learn by?
> > > > Steve
>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> So I have to say, I think your major third tuning is great, but I
> think it'd be even better if the thirds were 379 cents, and the frets
> were set to 19-EDO! Then three thirds doesn't make an octave, but five
> thirds makes a perfect twelfth. :)

Whoa, that's magic <https://xenharmonic.wikispaces.com/Magic> ! ;)
(sorry, couldn't resist)

On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with three 400 cent periods per
octave either, which is not a 12-EDO only thing, but supported by any
EDO that is a multiple of 3, and other non-EDO tunings/temperaments.
Not meant as criticism, just saying. ;)

Hooray, another new person who already knows the theory! Where do you
people keep coming from?

This list has been really inactive recently though; all of the action
is at https://www.facebook.com/groups/xenharmonic2/

(All of the theory people seem to have disappeared at once; this
community is like that sometimes.)

Mike

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, gedankenwelt94 <gedankenwelt94@...> wrote:
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
> > So I have to say, I think your major third tuning is great, but I
> > think it'd be even better if the thirds were 379 cents, and the frets
> > were set to 19-EDO! Then three thirds doesn't make an octave, but five
> > thirds makes a perfect twelfth. :)
>
> Whoa, that's magic! ;)
> (sorry, couldn't resist)
>
> On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with three 400 cent periods per octave either, which is not a 12-EDO only thing, but supported by any EDO that is a multiple of 3, and other non-EDO tunings/temperaments.
> Not meant as criticism, just saying. ;)

Hi,

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> Hooray, another new person who already knows the theory! Where do you
> people keep coming from?
>
> This list has been really inactive recently though; all of the action
> is at https://www.facebook.com/groups/xenharmonic2/
>
> (All of the theory people seem to have disappeared at once; this
> community is like that sometimes.)

I'm not exactly new here, but I still didn't introduce myself, and I think I wasn't a very active discussant in the past, so I guess you're not at fault here. ;)

My original intention was to introduce myself when my 31-EDO guitar arrives, but there were some obstacles that delayed the process by a large amount of time, so I guess there's no reason to further postpone it (I'll try to do it within the next days).

I won't register at facebook though, because I'm interested in open discussions that are accessible to anyone (at least for reading). Please don't misunderstand me: I think it's a good thing that there are discussions on facebook, but I think a lot of the people that question the predominance of 12-EDO also question other things, like the peer pressure related to social networks, and I find it important to not abandon / exclude them.

- Gedankenwelt

Sorry so long to resond. My guitar is acoustic with metal strings on bottom and nylon on top. I haven't changed the strings yet despite the Major Thirds tuning. It seems OK so far.
--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Chris Vaisvil <chrisvaisvil@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> Can you describe your guitar? It makes a difference if it is a steel string
> acoustic, classical with nylon strings, or an electric.
>
> A general answer is this:
>
> two effects can be noticed, with time, when detuning down by a fair amount
>
> 1. The neck will tend to lose some of its relief - may or may not be a
> problem
> 2. Sometimes the intonation of the strings will be a bit off. again, may or
> may not be a problem.
>
> Electrics are great because they have hardware that can easily be adjusted
> to take care most changes. I have bought "not even slinky" string sets and
> tuned a regular electric to baritone tuning and with a bit of bridge
> adjusting the intonation is fine.
>
> There is a *ton* of guitar adjustment information, electric and acoustic,
> on the internet - here is one to start with
>
> http://audio.tutsplus.com/tutorials/instruments/7-steps-to-setting-up-your-guitar/
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 11:57 PM, v <marshappynation@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> > I am a new member, an experienced pianist now learning the guitar. After a
> > lot of self-teaching via the Mel Bay type of books, in which I never got
> > over the chaos in the standard guitar tuning caused by the inconsisitency
> > in the intervals between strings, I have gone to major thirds. I think this
> > is me. But I need to know:
> > 1) is it advisable to get different strings up top, where they are getting
> > detuned, as much as from E to C?
> > 2) where can I get material to learn by? Such as easy arrangements to
> > whatever songs in this tuning?
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
>