Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Nikolay Diletsky Circle of 1679

I'm afraid I don't read Russian, but a little online searching finds it described as the first known "circle of fifths" and then you can see that it has an F clef or bass clef just to the left of top, and going clockwise we see the same motif of 5 notes (i vi iv i iv) repeated in:

1. A minor
2. D minor
3. G minor
4. C minor
5. F minor
6. Bb minor
7. Eb/D# minor
8. Ab/G# minor
9. Db/C# minor
10. F# minor
11. B minor
12. E minor

Each time, the motif is either lowered by a fifth or raised by a fourth. Or we can say it is always lowered by a fifth but is then sometimes raised by an octave whenever necessary to bring it back onto the staff and minimise the use of ledger lines.

Interestingly, it uses a mix of enharmonic sharps and flats in keys 7, 8 and 9 that we wouldn't do in 12-EDO today except in unusual circumstances.

-- Dave Keenan

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Francis" <Francis@...> wrote:
>
> Might someone who reads Russian explain the following 'circle'?
>
>
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Diletsky_circle.jpg
>
>
>
> It is found in Nikolay Diletsky's "Idea grammatiki musikiyskoy." (éÄÅÑ
> ÇÒÁÍÍÁÔÉËÉ ÍÕÚÉËÉÊÓËÏÊ, "An idea of musical grammar", GBL 107, p. 134, a
> manuscript from 1679 held by the Russian State Library.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Charles
>

🔗Charles Francis <Francis@...>

Thanks, it's not so easy to read on computer - one of those few use-cases
where a tablet PC would be more more helpful than a laptop - the enharmonic
sharps and flats don't help either.

Regards

Charles

From: tuning@yahoogroups.com [mailto:tuning@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
dkeenanuqnetau
Sent: 11 December 2012 02:37
To: tuning@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [tuning] Re: Nikolay Diletsky Circle of 1679

I'm afraid I don't read Russian, but a little online searching finds it
described as the first known "circle of fifths" and then you can see that it
has an F clef or bass clef just to the left of top, and going clockwise we
see the same motif of 5 notes (i vi iv i iv) repeated in:

1. A minor
2. D minor
3. G minor
4. C minor
5. F minor
6. Bb minor
7. Eb/D# minor
8. Ab/G# minor
9. Db/C# minor
10. F# minor
11. B minor
12. E minor

Each time, the motif is either lowered by a fifth or raised by a fourth. Or
we can say it is always lowered by a fifth but is then sometimes raised by
an octave whenever necessary to bring it back onto the staff and minimise
the use of ledger lines.

Interestingly, it uses a mix of enharmonic sharps and flats in keys 7, 8 and
9 that we wouldn't do in 12-EDO today except in unusual circumstances.

-- Dave Keenan

🔗martinsj013 <martinsj@...>

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "dkeenanuqnetau" <d.keenan@...> wrote:
> I'm afraid I don't read Russian, but a little online searching finds it described as the first known "circle of fifths" and then you can see that it has an F clef or bass clef just to the left of top, and going clockwise we see the same motif of 5 notes (i vi iv i iv) repeated in:
> 1. A minor ...

Good spot, Dave, and above the first set it says La, Fa, Re, La, Re. I don't know Russian but I do know the Cyrillic letters (although even that is a challenge as there are several here that are not used in modern Russian). The red letters in the main paragraph seem to say Ut Re Mi Fa Sol Le (sic- well that's one of the obsolete characters that, I read, is not "a" despite appearances) and I fancy I can discern other non-Slavic sequences including "bemol", "diezis", "pianie", "organie". Not sure if this is much help!

🔗Margo Schulter <mschulter@...>

Hello, Dave and all.

Interpreting this circle of fifths according to the
Ukrainian composer Mykola or Nikolai Diletsky (to give both the
Ukrainian and Russian forms of his first name) would be helped by
a better knowledge on our part of his theoretical writings. What
I say is my not-so-educated guess, but may ask some helpful
questions.

My first hypothesis might be that A-F-D-A-D in position 1 of the
circle represents untransposed D Dorian, the First Mode of the
Latin system more or less equivalent to Protus in the Byzantine
system with its offshoots in Russia and Ukrainia. We can read
these notes as representing the three principal steps of the mode
according to Zarlino: the final D, and the notes a third and
fifth above it. This final-third-fifth scheme, which Zarlino
applies to all the modes, is a simplification of the usual
approach where the confinal or reciting tone, often heard in the
course of a piece more than the concluding final, may be a third,
fourth, fifth, or sixth above the final.

If we agree that the center is D, then there is still ambiguity
as to what kind of modality or tonality Diletsky assumes or is
advocating (his writings may tell us). In early tonal
compositions of Western Europe -- and 1679 is within the epoch
where traditional modal and new tonal concepts are both very much
in the air -- minor is often written with a "Dorian" signature,
with no flat for the sixth degree. Werckmeister remarks this kind
of new tonality mixes together a little Dorian and a bit of
Aeolian, so the matter of a signature could be seen as left open.

The quick Googling I've been able to do indicates that Diletsky
advocated the adoption of Venetian polychoral polyphony to a
Ukrainian or Russian milieu, an integration he notably achieved
in his own compositions. For Giovanni Gabrieli, at any rate, the
"First Mode" was D Dorian in its authentic form.

The motif A-F-D-A-D and its transposed counterparts --
e.g. D-Bb-G-D-G in position 2 (G Dorian or minor) -- may point to
a theme of Zarlino (1558 and later) as well as Johannes Lippius:
the importance of the division of the fifth in influencing the
affect or emotional quality of a mode. If the division is
harmonic (string ratios 15:12:10, partials 4:5:6), then the
quality will be bright and cheerful. If, as here with D-F-A, it
is arithmetic (6:5:4, or partials 10:12:15), it will be more sad
or gentle.

While this contrast became a feature of the major/minor system,
it is also a feature of 16th-17th century modality, whose
exponents such as Zarlino and Lippius speak of _armonia perfetta_
("perfect harmony") or the _trias harmonica_ ("harmonic triad")
as having these differing qualities depending on the division.

As Joel Lester remarks in his study _Between Modes and Keys_,
17th-century compositions may communicate a "modality" or
"tonality" which is largely in the eyes and ears of the listener;
but theoretical concepts of the period give hints as to the
viewpoints of the era itself. Diletsky's theory obviously might
serve this purpose.

For now, I'll just suggest that the modality-tonality might well
be "D-something-or-other-with-an-arithmetically-divided-fifth,"
transposed to the other 11 locations.

With many thanks,

Margo

🔗Clint Goss <clint@...>

> Might someone who reads Russian explain the following 'circle'?
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Diletsky_circle.jpg
>Charles

According to my wife, who speaks fluent modern Russian, this Looks like old church Russian that my dad would have known how to
read

-- Clint Goss
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Nikolay Diletsky Circle of 1679

🔗Charles Francis <Francis@...>

🔗dkeenanuqnetau <d.keenan@...>

🔗Charles Francis <Francis@...>

🔗martinsj013 <martinsj@...>

🔗Margo Schulter <mschulter@...>

🔗Clint Goss <clint@...>