Yahoo Tuning Groups Ultimate Backup tuning Linux DAW's and software? [x-post between MMM and tuning]

Hi all, and 'scuse the cross-posting, but as both of these lists have
been slightly on the inactive side recently, I wanted to make sure at
least -someone- saw this... :)

I've been discussing with Keenan on IRC how the Linux/free software
community might be significantly better for making microtonal music
than the commercial community, since they're more likely to include
experimental features like MTS and custom accidental support and such.
However, as far as I know, nobody's laid out any sort of integrated
workflow that demonstrates how to make microtonal music using Linux -
whether it's all in one DAW (like Ardour or something) vs split
between a few programs or what have you.

So I wanted to ask, does anyone have experience with making microtonal
music on Linux? What programs do you use? Does anyone have a decent
workflow set up?

I was thinking of compiling a list of different Linux DAWs and seeing
how they compare with the following features

AUDIO
1) has audio support
2) has VST and/or AU and/or RTAS support
3) can export to or import from other commercial DAWs

MIDI
1) has MIDI sequencing support
2) has MIDI realtime recording support
3) has some way to route MIDI output to custom softsynths
4) has MTS support
5) has OSC support
6) has some sort of notation editing capabilities
6a) notation has custom accidental support

I doubt there's any single program on the planet which has all of
these things, but there may be a few linux programs which have a good
amount of them, letting you come up with a good workflow that way.
Anyone have any insight? I was gonna spend some time comparing Ardour,
LMMS, Rosegarden, and whatever else is out there with these things
later.

-Mike

🔗Graham Breed <gbreed@...>

Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:

> So I wanted to ask, does anyone have experience with
> making microtonal music on Linux? What programs do you
> use? Does anyone have a decent workflow set up?

I've used Rosegarden with ZynAddSubFX and Audacity. It
worked reasonably well, but I didn't like Rosegarden's
interface as much as Cubasis Audio. I wish I could find
something like Cubasis Audio on Linux. I don't think I got
Rosegarden's audio functionality to work. At least, I
didn't use it, I only wanted a MIDI sequencer. ZynAddSubFX
can record its audio directly.

These days, I've stopped using Rosegarden because I
upgraded to a version that doesn't run comfortably on my
machine. If you have something more powerful to run it on
it should still work for you. I can see it would be an
advantage to write music in Lilypond, then bounce it into
Rosegarden to edit and clean up the performance, and maybe
bounce it back into Lilypond for printing. I haven't
looked into hacking Rosegarden to work with different
notations.

> I was thinking of compiling a list of different Linux
> DAWs and seeing how they compare with the following
> features

I'm still not sure what a DAW is. I did look for a
sequencer a few years ago.

> AUDIO
> 1) has audio support
> 2) has VST and/or AU and/or RTAS support
> 3) can export to or import from other commercial DAWs

I remember certain applications not explicitly supporting
VST for legal reasons. But it's possible to run a LADSPA
to VST bridge. I see there's been movement on this front:

http://linux-sound.org/plugins.html

DSSI was an unimaginative format that duplicated the MIDI
pitch model. That's fine if you're working with MIDI, of
course, all you do is lie about what the pitches mean and
tune at the synth level. But what would be really nice is
to have a synth format that took flexible pitches and so
that you could do the tuning at a higher level.

> MIDI
> 1) has MIDI sequencing support
> 2) has MIDI realtime recording support

I remember Rosegarden being the only thing I could find to
do these adequately. Maybe that's changed now. Let me
know what you find.

> 6) has some sort of notation editing capabilities
> 6a) notation has custom accidental support

Once you have something free that you think is good, we can
look at adding (6a).

Graham

🔗Bogdan <baros_ilogic@...>

Try playing around with Rationale:
http://www.badmuthahubbard.com/cgi-bin/rationaleinfo.py

It might miss a lot of the features you're interested in, but it will give you a good workflow through Jack.

All Linux software for music in one place:
http://linux-sound.org/

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all, and 'scuse the cross-posting, but as both of these lists have
> been slightly on the inactive side recently, I wanted to make sure at
> least -someone- saw this... :)
>
> I've been discussing with Keenan on IRC how the Linux/free software
> community might be significantly better for making microtonal music
> than the commercial community, since they're more likely to include
> experimental features like MTS and custom accidental support and such.
> However, as far as I know, nobody's laid out any sort of integrated
> workflow that demonstrates how to make microtonal music using Linux -
> whether it's all in one DAW (like Ardour or something) vs split
> between a few programs or what have you.
>
> So I wanted to ask, does anyone have experience with making microtonal
> music on Linux? What programs do you use? Does anyone have a decent
> workflow set up?
>
> I was thinking of compiling a list of different Linux DAWs and seeing
> how they compare with the following features
>
> AUDIO
> 1) has audio support
> 2) has VST and/or AU and/or RTAS support
> 3) can export to or import from other commercial DAWs
>
> MIDI
> 1) has MIDI sequencing support
> 2) has MIDI realtime recording support
> 3) has some way to route MIDI output to custom softsynths
> 4) has MTS support
> 5) has OSC support
> 6) has some sort of notation editing capabilities
> 6a) notation has custom accidental support
>
> I doubt there's any single program on the planet which has all of
> these things, but there may be a few linux programs which have a good
> amount of them, letting you come up with a good workflow that way.
> Anyone have any insight? I was gonna spend some time comparing Ardour,
> LMMS, Rosegarden, and whatever else is out there with these things
> later.
>
> -Mike
>

🔗monz <joemonz@...>

Hi Mike,

Except for when i use my own Windows-only Tonescape, i've
been using Linux exclusively for over 4 years.

I was a power Finale user for years before the switch to Linux,
but i never use Finale anymore -- now i use MuseScore for my
notation needs instead. It's now at version 1.2 and still
has a long way to go to match the capability of Finale
(full implementation of tablature will signal the jump to v2.0).

But now i use MuseScore all the time and find i can input a score
_very_ fast, by avoiding the mouse and using the computer
keyboard and keyboard-shortcuts instead. And MuseScore has
a microtonal-accidentals plugin which works well and is quite
flexible, and produces correct audio output at cent (1200-edo)
resolution.

http://musescore.org/

And then there's another microtonal program ... i will
praise you to the sky if you can find a way to get Tonescape
working in Linux.

Tonescape has never worked for me in Wine, and i
tried opening an entry for it in the Wine app database, but
couldn't even get it accepted, which left me very disheartened and frustrated ... maybe you or someone else can have better luck.

http://appdb.winehq.org/

I've also set up numerous Windows virtual machines, using
both Virtualbox and qemu, but never got farther than a successful
install, with one hopeful exception: earlier this year i
managed to get Tonescape working -- but running too slow to
be useable, and in a buggy fashion -- in a Windows 8 Developer
Preview virtual machine running in Virtualbox on Linux Mint 12.

Mint 13 is out now, and Microsoft is still offering Windows 8
previews, which are probably significant updates to the one
i have ... but i haven't had the time to try either yet:

http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2031
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/download

Of course getting Tonescape running in Wine is the better
Linux solution ... but i'd use a VM if it would work properly.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

> Hi all, and 'scuse the cross-posting, but as both of these lists have
> been slightly on the inactive side recently, I wanted to make sure at
> least -someone- saw this... :)
>
> I've been discussing with Keenan on IRC how the Linux/free software
> community might be significantly better for making microtonal music
> than the commercial community, since they're more likely to include
> experimental features like MTS and custom accidental support and such.
> However, as far as I know, nobody's laid out any sort of integrated
> workflow that demonstrates how to make microtonal music using Linux -
> whether it's all in one DAW (like Ardour or something) vs split
> between a few programs or what have you.
>
> So I wanted to ask, does anyone have experience with making microtonal
> music on Linux? What programs do you use? Does anyone have a decent
> workflow set up?
>
> I was thinking of compiling a list of different Linux DAWs and seeing
> how they compare with the following features
>
> AUDIO
> 1) has audio support
> 2) has VST and/or AU and/or RTAS support
> 3) can export to or import from other commercial DAWs
>
> MIDI
> 1) has MIDI sequencing support
> 2) has MIDI realtime recording support
> 3) has some way to route MIDI output to custom softsynths
> 4) has MTS support
> 5) has OSC support
> 6) has some sort of notation editing capabilities
> 6a) notation has custom accidental support
>
> I doubt there's any single program on the planet which has all of
> these things, but there may be a few linux programs which have a good
> amount of them, letting you come up with a good workflow that way.
> Anyone have any insight? I was gonna spend some time comparing Ardour,
> LMMS, Rosegarden, and whatever else is out there with these things
> later.
>
> -Mike
>

🔗monz <joemonz@...>

Some good news to report here ... i just did a fresh install
of Linux Mint 13 (Maya) in order to effect the upgrade from 12.
My new Virtualbox is version 4.1.12, and upon running the
Windows 8 VM which i created several minths ago, i opened
Tonescape and, lo and behold, the sound is now almost as good
as it is when running natively in real Windows.

The Windows 8 VM is telling me that there are updates ready to
install, but for some reason i cannot get it connected to
the internet. My guess is that if i could also update Windows 8,
Tonescape would probably be running fine ... and _finally_
able to run in Linux.

-monz
http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
Tonescape microtonal music software

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
>
> Except for when i use my own Windows-only Tonescape, i've
> been using Linux exclusively for over 4 years.
>
> <snip>
>
> And then there's another microtonal program ... i will
> praise you to the sky if you can find a way to get Tonescape
> working in Linux.
>
> Tonescape has never worked for me in Wine, and i
> tried opening an entry for it in the Wine app database, but
> couldn't even get it accepted, which left me very disheartened and frustrated ... maybe you or someone else can have better luck.
>
> http://appdb.winehq.org/
>
>
> I've also set up numerous Windows virtual machines, using
> both Virtualbox and qemu, but never got farther than a successful
> install, with one hopeful exception: earlier this year i
> managed to get Tonescape working -- but running too slow to
> be useable, and in a buggy fashion -- in a Windows 8 Developer
> Preview virtual machine running in Virtualbox on Linux Mint 12.
>
> Mint 13 is out now, and Microsoft is still offering Windows 8
> previews, which are probably significant updates to the one
> i have ... but i haven't had the time to try either yet:
>
> http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2031
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/download
>
> Of course getting Tonescape running in Wine is the better
> Linux solution ... but i'd use a VM if it would work properly.
>
>
> -monz

🔗AWolf <wolftune@...>

Check out this discussion I had a while back at Linuxmusicians.com
http://www.linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7955

Someone here already mentioned Rationale here.
I've been meaning to explore it more, but I had some issues getting it to integrate well with the rest of my system. I have no experience with CSound etc.

There's many other options (including Scala)

But the very most exciting for flexible out-of-the-box microtonal synth stuff is actually a GNU/Linux-exclusive:
http://dinisnoise.org/

DIN is absolutely remarkable and I have yet to even touch the surface. It blows away any other microtonal synth stuff I've ever tried. It's Free/Libre/Open-Source. It does take a little learning, try looking over the tutorial stuff on the website.

🔗AWolf <wolftune@...>

Joe, have you tried the latest WINE? It is constantly updated
But on a side note, I guess I should consider Virtualbox options because I really want to be able to stick to GNU/Linux but I need to access Melodyne and WINE isn't working for me for that, although other people say they got it going

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@...> wrote:
>
> Some good news to report here ... i just did a fresh install
> of Linux Mint 13 (Maya) in order to effect the upgrade from 12.
> My new Virtualbox is version 4.1.12, and upon running the
> Windows 8 VM which i created several minths ago, i opened
> Tonescape and, lo and behold, the sound is now almost as good
> as it is when running natively in real Windows.
>
> The Windows 8 VM is telling me that there are updates ready to
> install, but for some reason i cannot get it connected to
> the internet. My guess is that if i could also update Windows 8,
> Tonescape would probably be running fine ... and _finally_
> able to run in Linux.
>
> -monz
> http://tonalsoft.com/tonescape.aspx
> Tonescape microtonal music software
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "monz" <joemonz@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> >
> > Except for when i use my own Windows-only Tonescape, i've
> > been using Linux exclusively for over 4 years.
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > And then there's another microtonal program ... i will
> > praise you to the sky if you can find a way to get Tonescape
> > working in Linux.
> >
> > Tonescape has never worked for me in Wine, and i
> > tried opening an entry for it in the Wine app database, but
> > couldn't even get it accepted, which left me very disheartened and frustrated ... maybe you or someone else can have better luck.
> >
> > http://appdb.winehq.org/
> >
> >
> > I've also set up numerous Windows virtual machines, using
> > both Virtualbox and qemu, but never got farther than a successful
> > install, with one hopeful exception: earlier this year i
> > managed to get Tonescape working -- but running too slow to
> > be useable, and in a buggy fashion -- in a Windows 8 Developer
> > Preview virtual machine running in Virtualbox on Linux Mint 12.
> >
> > Mint 13 is out now, and Microsoft is still offering Windows 8
> > previews, which are probably significant updates to the one
> > i have ... but i haven't had the time to try either yet:
> >
> > http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2031
> > http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/download
> >
> > Of course getting Tonescape running in Wine is the better
> > Linux solution ... but i'd use a VM if it would work properly.
> >
> >
> > -monz
>

🔗Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>

On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 3:38 AM, Graham Breed <gbreed@...> wrote:
>
> I've used Rosegarden with ZynAddSubFX and Audacity. It
> worked reasonably well, but I didn't like Rosegarden's
> interface as much as Cubasis Audio. I wish I could find
> something like Cubasis Audio on Linux. I don't think I got
> Rosegarden's audio functionality to work. At least, I
> didn't use it, I only wanted a MIDI sequencer. ZynAddSubFX
> can record its audio directly.

How is Rosegarden's notation stuff? Or is Rosegarden just for MIDI?

> > I was thinking of compiling a list of different Linux
> > DAWs and seeing how they compare with the following
> > features
>
> I'm still not sure what a DAW is. I did look for a
> sequencer a few years ago.

We talked on Gchat about this, but for those who are confused, DAW
refers to things like Pro Tools, Logic, SONAR, etc.

-Mike

🔗Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>

On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Tobias Schlemmer
<Tobias.Schlemmer@tu-dresden.de> wrote:
>
> I've some experience, but maybe not in the sense you have in mind: I'm the current developer of Mutabor http://www.math.tu-dresden.de/~mutabor/. Packages for certain distributions are availlable (just ask for them). Though it is not originally a Unix program it fits more or less into the Unix philosophy: Do one thing and do it well. Our aim is retuning music including mutable tunings.

Thanks, looks very interesting! Are there any screenshots of it? I
can't download it until my Mint install is up and running again,
unfortunately.

> As I already said: The unix philosophy is different. So you are propably right. But the problem can be solved in another way: JACK is an audio framework that routes audio and MIDI data. Clients can be Sequencers, ports, audio players/recorders and many more. One feature is that certain plugins can ask other clients to provide there session settings and to store them. There exist such programs that store and restore your session, but I haven't used them so I don't know much about the real challenges with them. (BTW. Jack is availlable for other OSs too).

So is the idea that it enables multiple applications to communicate
with one another? Does this actually work, in practice, to have a MIDI
sequencer routing its output to a standalone softsynth which then goes
into an audio-only DAW, or something?

I'm really curious how possible it is to use Linux to make
high-quality, professional audio - which I don't think should be hard.
As long as there's some way to run VST plugins and get audio and MIDI
all working together, whether it's in one program or multiple
programs, it should be possible to do professional work.

-Mike

🔗Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>

On Sun, Aug 26, 2012 at 4:37 AM, monz <joemonz@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Except for when i use my own Windows-only Tonescape, i've
> been using Linux exclusively for over 4 years.
//snip

You know, this is probably a good time for me to ask what Tonescape
actually is. When I first heard about it a few years ago, I didn't
know any regular temperament theory at all, but now I'm up to date. Is
Tonescape built around regular temperament theory then? Like built
around the Fokker/Tenney/tuning-math/etc paradigm?

> I was a power Finale user for years before the switch to Linux,
> but i never use Finale anymore -- now i use MuseScore for my
> notation needs instead. It's now at version 1.2 and still
> has a long way to go to match the capability of Finale
> (full implementation of tablature will signal the jump to v2.0).

It seems to me like Linux's scoring programs are better than its DAWs.
Is this impression accurate?

-Mike

🔗Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>

🔗Tobias Schlemmer <keinstein_junior@...>

Hi,

this mail returned because I used the wrong address. I thought about
forgetting it. but maybe between the lines there is some useful
information for you.

As you asked for Rosegarden: The ancient X11 Rosegarden had notational
support but was too unstable to be used (at least for me). Then they
rewrote the complete GUI (a project that took centuries). I just
verified: the notational editor is still there and at a first glance
it's not limited to MIDI. Together with LilyPond export I'd assume that
preparation of scores is still one of the intented purposes of
rosegarden. (Open a file and you find the notation window under Segment
? Edit with ? Notation editor; retranslation from German into English)

Am 25.08.2012 01:33, schrieb Mike Battaglia:
>
>
> So I wanted to ask, does anyone have experience with making microtonal
> music on Linux? What programs do you use? Does anyone have a decent
> workflow set up?
>
I've some experience, but maybe not in the sense you have in mind: I'm
the current developer of Mutabor
http://www.math.tu-dresden.de/~mutabor/. Packages for certain
distributions are availlable (just ask for them). Though it is not
originally a Unix program it fits more or less into the Unix philosophy:
Do one thing and do it well. Our aim is retuning music including mutable
tunings.

If not stated else I'll answer these questions for mutabor. ;-)
>
> I was thinking of compiling a list of different Linux DAWs and seeing
> how they compare with the following features
>
> AUDIO
> 1) has audio support
>
I've played a little bit with Ardour and Audacity. The former is more a
workstation while the latter is simpler and doesn't relay on realtime
streaming (i.e. it runs on lower hardware).
>
> 2) has VST and/or AU and/or RTAS support
>
Someone asked to develop Mutabor into a VST plugin, but due to lack of
manpower its just an idea.
Mutabor can be compiled with jack support (untested) so far.

> MIDI
> 1) has MIDI sequencing support
>
yes
>
> 2) has MIDI realtime recording support
>
yes, but maybe you want to reroute output to another midi recorder.
>
> 3) has some way to route MIDI output to custom softsynths
>
As long as the synth provides a virtual midi device (which is no problem
on Linux and Mac) or you use a routing panel like patchage (supports
ALSA and JACK).
>
> 4) has MTS support
> 5) has OSC support
> 6) has some sort of notation editing capabilities
> 6a) notation has custom accidental support
>
I have used both LilyPond and MusixTeX for notation. Both are
translators for text files. For both some GUIs exist that can create
and/or read such text files as well as MIDI data. But the projects work
completely different. LilyPond provides fully automated music engraving
with many points to influence the output algorithms (including writing
scheme functions). MusixTeX has remained in the TeX world and inherits
all its benefits and drawbacks.
>
> I doubt there's any single program on the planet which has all of
> these things, but there may be a few linux programs which have a good
> amount of them, letting you come up with a good workflow that way.
>
As I already said: The unix philosophy is different. So you are propably
right. But the problem can be solved in another way: JACK is an audio
framework that routes audio and MIDI data. Clients can be Sequencers,
ports, audio players/recorders and many more. One feature is that
certain plugins can ask other clients to provide there session settings
and to store them. There exist such programs that store and restore your
session, but I haven't used them so I don't know much about the real
challenges with them. (BTW. Jack is availlable for other OSs too).

-Tobias

> Anyone have any insight? I was gonna spend some time comparing Ardour,
> LMMS, Rosegarden, and whatever else is out there with these things
> later.
>
> -Mike
>
>

🔗Tobias Schlemmer <keinstein_junior@...>

Am 27.08.2012 21:44, schrieb Mike Battaglia:
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Tobias Schlemmer
> <Tobias.Schlemmer@...
> <mailto:Tobias.Schlemmer%40tu-dresden.de>> wrote:
> > Am 27.08.2012 21:05, schrieb Mike Battaglia:
> > > Thanks Bogdan - I remember seeing Rationale before, but never checked
> > > it out. Also looks like I need to get more accustomed to Jack. I
> > > thought it was just some sort of audio interface or driver, but it's
> > > actually an inter-app MIDI/audio communication platform?
> >
> > Yes. As far as I understand it: its the glue you need if you are
> playing the unix style: one tool for one problem. Jack also provides
> session management.
>
> What do you mean by session management, exactly?
>

I think its better understandable in another of my mails. Jack provides
a way to save certain settings of the programs communicating with each
other. Of course, this does work only if all components provide this
feature. Then there exists some software (I don't remember its name)
that collects these data and saves it somewhere. When you load these
data it will set up your components according to the saved data. I never
tried it, so I can't tell more about it. But I thought it might be
useful to you at some moment.

>
> -Mike
>
>

🔗genewardsmith <genewardsmith@...>

🔗touchedchuckk <BadMuthaHubbard@...>

Crazy, I just found this now. I just presented Rationale yesterday at the 2013 Linux Audio Conference.

It's limited to just intonation and I still haven't found a good, intuitive output method.
Incidentally, Bogdan, are you really in Galati?? I've been living in Bucharest for 5 years. I wrote Rationale in Romania. I had no idea there was anyone else out there exploring xenharmonics. Cool!

-Chuckk

--- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, "Bogdan" <baros_ilogic@...> wrote:
>
> Try playing around with Rationale:
> http://www.badmuthahubbard.com/cgi-bin/rationaleinfo.py
>
> It might miss a lot of the features you're interested in, but it will give you a good workflow through Jack.
>
> All Linux software for music in one place:
> http://linux-sound.org/
>
>
> --- In tuning@yahoogroups.com, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all, and 'scuse the cross-posting, but as both of these lists have
> > been slightly on the inactive side recently, I wanted to make sure at
> > least -someone- saw this... :)
> >
> > I've been discussing with Keenan on IRC how the Linux/free software
> > community might be significantly better for making microtonal music
> > than the commercial community, since they're more likely to include
> > experimental features like MTS and custom accidental support and such.
> > However, as far as I know, nobody's laid out any sort of integrated
> > workflow that demonstrates how to make microtonal music using Linux -
> > whether it's all in one DAW (like Ardour or something) vs split
> > between a few programs or what have you.
> >
> > So I wanted to ask, does anyone have experience with making microtonal
> > music on Linux? What programs do you use? Does anyone have a decent
> > workflow set up?
> >
> > I was thinking of compiling a list of different Linux DAWs and seeing
> > how they compare with the following features
> >
> > AUDIO
> > 1) has audio support
> > 2) has VST and/or AU and/or RTAS support
> > 3) can export to or import from other commercial DAWs
> >
> > MIDI
> > 1) has MIDI sequencing support
> > 2) has MIDI realtime recording support
> > 3) has some way to route MIDI output to custom softsynths
> > 4) has MTS support
> > 5) has OSC support
> > 6) has some sort of notation editing capabilities
> > 6a) notation has custom accidental support
> >
> > I doubt there's any single program on the planet which has all of
> > these things, but there may be a few linux programs which have a good
> > amount of them, letting you come up with a good workflow that way.
> > Anyone have any insight? I was gonna spend some time comparing Ardour,
> > LMMS, Rosegarden, and whatever else is out there with these things
> > later.
> >
> > -Mike
> >
>

🔗Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@...>

On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 7:16 PM, touchedchuckk
<BadMuthaHubbard@...> wrote:
>
> It's limited to just intonation and I still haven't found a good, intuitive output method.

Sweet! I was hoping you'd pop up here again.

What I've been envisioning for quite some time is some sort of
"standard way" to use existing protocols to make a system (of any
kind) that works. So there's the various protocols involved (MIDI,
MTS, etc), and then there are the numerous "standardized" ways of
using these protocols which are considered "the right way to do
things," which are so chosen because they actually make it easier to
do things.

For instance, if you know anything about web programming, this is
exactly what's happened with JavaScript in the past decade or so.

Right now, we have a whole mishmosh of options in front of us: MIDI,
MTS, channel swapping and remapping, pitch bends, etc. We also have
other "niche" technologies such as OSC, as well as
manufacturer-specific things like VST3's "note expression" support.

We had a thread discussing all that here, where it was suggested that
we lobby the new Sibelius team's new project for microtuning support:
/makemicromusic/topicId_28964.html#28964. We
discussed various pros and cons about what, exactly, to lobby for.

I strongly believe that we're going to remain marginalized on this
issue until we collectively decide with some sort of standard that
manufacturers ought support, and design it so that it a) a builds on
existing protocols and requires a minimum of overhead on their part,
and b) can reasonably do everything that we want it to do.

Once some kind of standard is decided upon, I envision the next steps
as being to beg and plead for Manuel to implement it as an output
option in Scala, as well as other microtonal-specific software (Jacky
Ligon's synths, Andy Milne's synths and Relayer program, etc), and
then finally to step it up and beg for manufacturers to support this
standard.

Since you have actual experience in creating a microtonal sequencer,
you no doubt have insights into what works and doesn't work. Any
thoughts on this? We may want to bring it to the microtools list.

Mike

🔗James Fenn <james@...>

Where the hell is the microtools list? All I found was a yahoo list for men
with small appendages

On 12 May 2013 00:39, Mike Battaglia <battaglia01@gmail.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> On Sat, May 11, 2013 at 7:16 PM, touchedchuckk
> <BadMuthaHubbard@...> wrote:
> >
> > It's limited to just intonation and I still haven't found a good,
> intuitive output method.
>
> Sweet! I was hoping you'd pop up here again.
>
> What I've been envisioning for quite some time is some sort of
> "standard way" to use existing protocols to make a system (of any
> kind) that works. So there's the various protocols involved (MIDI,
> MTS, etc), and then there are the numerous "standardized" ways of
> using these protocols which are considered "the right way to do
> things," which are so chosen because they actually make it easier to
> do things.
>
> For instance, if you know anything about web programming, this is
> exactly what's happened with JavaScript in the past decade or so.
>
> Right now, we have a whole mishmosh of options in front of us: MIDI,
> MTS, channel swapping and remapping, pitch bends, etc. We also have
> other "niche" technologies such as OSC, as well as
> manufacturer-specific things like VST3's "note expression" support.
>
> We had a thread discussing all that here, where it was suggested that
> we lobby the new Sibelius team's new project for microtuning support:
> /makemicromusic/topicId_28964.html#28964. We
> discussed various pros and cons about what, exactly, to lobby for.
>
> I strongly believe that we're going to remain marginalized on this
> issue until we collectively decide with some sort of standard that
> manufacturers ought support, and design it so that it a) a builds on
> existing protocols and requires a minimum of overhead on their part,
> and b) can reasonably do everything that we want it to do.
>
> Once some kind of standard is decided upon, I envision the next steps
> as being to beg and plead for Manuel to implement it as an output
> option in Scala, as well as other microtonal-specific software (Jacky
> Ligon's synths, Andy Milne's synths and Relayer program, etc), and
> then finally to step it up and beg for manufacturers to support this
> standard.
>
> Since you have actual experience in creating a microtonal sequencer,
> you no doubt have insights into what works and doesn't work. Any
> thoughts on this? We may want to bring it to the microtools list.
>
> Mike
>
>
>